bucsfan333 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: Gruden never developed any young QBs , say what you will but thats the truth, Gruden thrived with savvy old vets everyone can play offense nowadays, the good teams in this league know how to play defense too Sure. But Chris Simms was the earliest we drafted a QB during his tenure, right? And that was in the third, if I remember correctly. Otherwise, it was Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, and Jeff Garcia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Sure. But Chris Simms was the earliest we drafted a QB during his tenure, right? And that was in the third, if I remember correctly. Otherwise, it was Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, and Jeff Garcia. yes but thats because that is the way Gruden wanted things, he could have drafted a QB earlier, Gruden liked Griese and he went after Garcia in FA he never liked young QBs , "they couldnt pick up his genius offense", and i dont want to hear about how Winston and his board room acumen could make his offense work, IMO Winston's problems are his decision making and his accuracy and those things are the most difficult things to fix in any QB Quote We all simply forget: grudens decisions ruined this roster long term. He makes Jason licht to look like an A + GM compared to his decisions. This is true too, with the haul of picks and money we gave away to get Gruden plus him and Allen's roster decisions and completely terrible FA acquisitions , it destroyed us and is the reason why we've been rebuilding for long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 35 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Sure. But Chris Simms was the earliest we drafted a QB during his tenure, right? And that was in the third, if I remember correctly. Otherwise, it was Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, and Jeff Garcia. And gruden went ballistic when McKay took him in round 3. Gruden played a large part in not wanting young qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 Gruden built a lot of the Super Bowl team through FA when we first brought him in. And a lot of them were starters and/or key contributors. WR Keenan McCardell, RB Michael Pittman, OT Romen Oben, OG Kerry Jenkins, WR Joe Jurevicius, DE Greg Spires So it's not like he can't/couldn't put a team together. He was in a hole from the get go, not having a first/second in his first season, first in his second season, and second (or third. Can't remember) in his third season. The offenses he put together were pretty good given the complete lack of talent he had to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 37 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Gruden built a lot of the Super Bowl team through FA when we first brought him in. And a lot of them were starters and/or key contributors. WR Keenan McCardell, RB Michael Pittman, OT Romen Oben, OG Kerry Jenkins, WR Joe Jurevicius, DE Greg Spires So it's not like he can't/couldn't put a team together. He was in a hole from the get go, not having a first/second in his first season, first in his second season, and second (or third. Can't remember) in his third season. The offenses he put together were pretty good given the complete lack of talent he had to work with. Yeah but you don't build teams in FA. The core of that was built through the draft. Name me a gruden pick that was successful? Don't give me the whole he "started without high picks". When they recovered those picks they still were abysmal failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said: Yeah but you don't build teams in FA. The core of that was built through the draft. Name me a gruden pick that was successful? Don't give me the whole he "started without high picks". When they recovered those picks they still were abysmal failures. I'm not saying he was great. But the notion that he was awful is also false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, bucsfan333 said: I'm not saying he was great. But the notion that he was awful is also false. i have to disagree here the notion that he was awful is at least adequate after the super bowl and after he left our whole roster was completely devoid of talent, that my friend , IS awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 If you look at the Gruden/Allen drafts starting 2004 because this was the first year McKay was gone, a few observations. They actually did a good job of drafting and developing olinemen. They drafted Joseph, Trueblood, Sears, and also UDFA Penn. For me, it's hard for me to consider a player a bust when injuries occur and blame it on the guy drafting him if there wasn't a medical from college. In the secondary they drafted Sabby which was a mistake, but off set that Allen, Jackson, and Talib. It's ashame Jackson couldn' beat his demons. They drafted LBs that were serviceble and had pretty long careers Ruud, Black, and Heyward. In today s NFL Gaines Adams (RIP) and Greg White would be making as much money as Ayers. They picked up Jovan Haye. Fair to say they didn't draft WRS well. Clayton for whatever reason fell off the map after his rookie year. Stovall was a special teamer. Cadillac was rookie of the year, the sin was not drafting Rodgers no argument. Only Gruden knows why he only drafted Gradkowski to deveop as a Qb. I would characterize their draft record as average, and rightfully stained by passing on Rodgers. The regime actually did very well on the UDFA market picking up contributors and they used free agency a lot. If he does come back, Gruden comes back with a young QB in place. I think he ll let the GM handle the draft board. I never got the sense he handcuffed Allen. I listened to some recent podcast that said Gruden still carries around a playbook and adds in plays he sees on film when watching teams. Does that sound like a guy who wants to stay retired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I need to add Gruden gets major extra credit for nailing the field goal kicker Matt Bryant ? BTW, Gruden s last 2 seasons he has as many winning seasons with 2 as combined of his 4 predecessors. A little bit of a stretch to say he left the team in shambles. Maybe taking the wrecking ball to the roster with Dom a bigger problem and let him rebuild it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 21 minutes ago, ravishingone said: A little bit of a stretch to say he left the team in shambles. Maybe taking the wrecking ball to the roster with Dom a bigger problem and let him rebuild it. idc how you slice it the way that they did the best players of our entire teams history (Brooks, Sapp, Lynch) still pisses me off til this day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 One last thing on Gruden and drafting Qbs. I looked at the drafts and wanted to see the best QB left in the draft when the Bucs were on the clock. We really wouldn' t know if they tried to trade up for a guy and failed. Here we go: -'04- Luke McCown later played for Gruden in his career -'05- Aaron Rodgers- gross, Jason Campbell, Ryan Fitzpatrick -'06- Tavares Jackson and Brodie Croyle -'07- Brady Quinn and Drew Stanton -'08- Matt Flynn Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuces22wild Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 5 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: im sorry , but i cant agree with this at all like at all our Defense is the main problem, our defense hasnt been good for so long, our defense is devoid of talent at major positions im not worried about our offense, we have playmakers , we have talent, we have drafted good players and have good depth all over the offense Gruden never developed any young QBs , say what you will but thats the truth, Gruden thrived with savvy old vets everyone can play offense nowadays, the good teams in this league know how to play defense too Where did I say let's get Gruden to run the O and the D? We have a 23 year old who hopes to be the franchise Qb. We have a 24 year old star WR. Our future monster TE is 22 years old. I'm guessing we bring in a rookie RB this draft. The younger side of the ball is our O. Turn all that over to a def coach and hope he bring in a good coordinator... not what this guy wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuces22wild Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 hours ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: This is true too, with the haul of picks and money we gave away to get Gruden plus him and Allen's roster decisions and completely terrible FA acquisitions , it destroyed us and is the reason why we've been rebuilding for long You are telling me that what nine years later Gruden/Allen are the reason we still look be a few seasons away from taking that next step? They took a decade plus of good football from all of the fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, deuces22wild said: Where did I say let's get Gruden to run the O and the D? We have a 23 year old who hopes to be the franchise Qb. We have a 24 year old star WR. Our future monster TE is 22 years old. I'm guessing we bring in a rookie RB this draft. The younger side of the ball is our O. Turn all that over to a def coach and hope he bring in a good coordinator... not what this guy wants. Gruden is an offensive guy , he never did anything on defense and we need someone Defensive minded in order to really take that side of the ball to the next level all im saying is i think that our offense has enough talent to survive and produce with any competent coaching where as the Defense really AND I MEAN REALLY needs some TLC and alot of attention aka a Defensive coach 59 minutes ago, deuces22wild said: You are telling me that what nine years later Gruden/Allen are the reason we still look be a few seasons away from taking that next step? They took a decade plus of good football from all of the fans... what im saying is that the way that Gruden and Allen let our roster decay towards the end has had a lasting effect on us that yes that reverberated for at a minimum of half the decade that we have been garbage, the other half i'd attest to terrible front office decisions and bad coaching/GM hires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 9 hours ago, REDandPEWTER said: Yeah but you don't build teams in FA. The core of that was built through the draft. Name me a gruden pick that was successful? Don't give me the whole he "started without high picks". When they recovered those picks they still were abysmal failures. Cadillac has his shoes in Canton from his three game tear to start his career. Then he ran him into the ground. And injuries derailed a promising career. Michael Clayton had one of the best rookie years of all time for a WR (at the time). Then he became a glorified FB. I'm not gonna defend the drafts we had under Gruden. And I agree with the idea of building through the draft. I'm not screaming for Gruden to be our new head coach. Again. I'm just entertaining the thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.f40f9543097d7c33ae4ad1ba4b0e906b.png)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.