Forge Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 48 minutes ago, ET80 said: Hmmm… …care to explain this logic? I can Amari Cooper is top 10 in receptions and receiving yards before age 28. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Just now, Forge said: I can Amari Cooper is top 10 in receptions and receiving yards before age 28. I don’t believe it - not enough stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 It could be Deacon Jones, but I don't know how to properly evaluate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) I go back to the late '60s. The two defensive linemen who were scary terrorizing players were Deacon Jones and Mean Joe Greene. The only other defender I would put in that category is Lawrence Taylor, who was the linebacker version of Deacon Jones and perhaps just slightly above. I see the other names all the time, like Reggie White and Bruce Smith and now Aaron Donald. I'll listen but don't put too much stock in it. Reggie White and Aaron Donald would be the next tier but I never felt compelled to watch them every play, like Jones, Mean Joe or Taylor. Edited March 8, 2022 by Awsi Dooger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 7 hours ago, ET80 said: @jrry32, @FrantikRam - might wanna have a seat. The best DL after Reggie White is… … Aaron Donald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 4 hours ago, ET80 said: Aaron Donald: - 3x Defensive Player of the year - 7x All Pro (only in his 8th year as a pro) - 8x Pro Bowler (see above on how long he’s been a Pro) Seems to me like Donald already passed him. Only 1 more Defensive Player of the year doesn't mean he's passed him not when Bruce Smith was competing with the likes of Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor year in and year out. (2x Defensive Player of the Year). • 10x All-Pro. • 11x Pro-Bowler. • 2x forced fumbles co-leader. √ 1,225 Tackles. √ 200 Sacks. √ 43 Forced Fumbles. Aaron Donald still has a long ways to go before he "passes" Bruce Smith (wake me up when his on the field production actually, you know; surpasses the production of Bruce Smith). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: (2x Defensive Player of the Year). • 10x All-Pro. • 11x Pro-Bowler. - 3x Defensive Player of the Year - 7x All Pro (8 years in the league) - 8x Pro Bowler See - I can repeat the same thing I said before, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 42 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: Bruce Smith was competing with the likes of Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor year in and year out LT only had 1 DPOY after Smith entered the league. Reggie White "only has 2 DPOY". Hell one year Smith was beaten by someone on his own team. JJ Watt has 2 since Donald entered the league. Not really much different And if you are saying we have to compare the stats of a DE and DT you really need to reevaluate how to judge the positions against each other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, mse326 said: And if you are saying we have to compare the stats of a DE and DT you really need to reevaluate how to judge the positions against each other Shhhhh… I wanted to see how long it took him to figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mse326 said: LT only had 1 DPOY after Smith entered the league. Reggie White "only has 2 DPOY". Hell one year Smith was beaten by someone on his own team. JJ Watt has 2 since Donald entered the league. Not really much different And if you are saying we have to compare the stats of a DE and DT you really need to reevaluate how to judge the positions against each other I'll give him the greatest DT of All-Time but he's not getting my vote for the most dominant Defensive Lineman of All-Time. It's a matter of opinion and my favorite was/is Bruce Smith. To each our own. Edited March 9, 2022 by DefenseWinsChampionships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Ok - stay with me on this one. It’s an opportunity for you to learn, or further expose your ignorance: 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: √ 200 Sacks. Bruce Smith: 200 sacks / 19 year career = 10.52 sacks/year. Aaron Donald: 98 sacks / 8 year career = 12.25 sacks/year. Advantage: Donald. 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: √ 43 Forced Fumbles. Smith: 43 FFs / 19 year career = 2.26 FFs/year Donald: 23 FFs / 8 year career = 2.875 FFs/year Advantage: Donald. 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: √ 1,225 Tackles. Smith: 1,225 Tackles / 19 year career = 64.47 tackles/year Donald: 448 Tackles / 8 year career = 55.125 tackles/year Advantage: Smith (would you look at that, he got one - good for you) ***Bonus Stat!*** Smith: 149 Tackles for Losses / 19 year career = 7.63 TFL/year Donald: 150 Tackles for Losses / 8 year career = 18.75 TFLs/year Advantage: Donald… by a lot, too. ————- So… as I said before… 6 hours ago, ET80 said: Seems to me like Donald already passed him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ET80 said: Ok - stay with me on this one. It’s an opportunity for you to learn, or further expose your ignorance: Bruce Smith: 200 sacks / 19 year career = 10.52 sacks/year. Aaron Donald: 98 sacks / 8 year career = 12.25 sacks/year. Advantage: Donald. Smith: 43 FFs / 19 year career = 2.26 FFs/year Donald: 23 FFs / 8 year career = 2.875 FFs/year Advantage: Donald. Smith: 1,225 Tackles / 19 year career = 64.47 tackles/year Donald: 448 Tackles / 8 year career = 55.125 tackles/year Advantage: Smith (would you look at that, he got one - good for you) ***Bonus Stat!*** Smith: 149 Tackles for Losses / 19 year career = 7.63 TFL/year Donald: 150 Tackles for Losses / 8 year career = 18.75 TFLs/year Advantage: Donald So… as I said before… Now let's look at their on field statistical production throughout their first 8 years (for a much better example). Bruce Smith. 108 games. • 541 tackles (5.0 per game). √ • 16 forced fumbles (0.14 per game). • 92 sacks (0.85 per game). √ • 1 Defensive TD. √ Aaron Donald. 127 games. • 441 tackles (2.8 per game). • 23 forced fumbles (0.18 per game). √ • 98 sacks (0.77 per game). • 0 Defensive TDs. Yes. Bruce Smith was injured in 1991 where he missed 11 games but on a per game basis? Bruce Smith was more dominant (on the D-Line) and suddenly once we compare their per game production throughout their 1st 8 years? You'll then realize what I'm talking about 🤑 How can Aaron Donald have already passed Bruce Smith, when he's still behind him? PS: Good luck to Aaron Donald next year because @ the age of 30 and during his 9th year Bruce Smith recorded 108 tackles, 3 Forced Fumbles, 14.0 sacks + another Pro Bowl/All-Pro. The book on Aaron Donald isn't yet written in stone; let's see how productive he can remain as he continues to, age (turning 31). Edited March 9, 2022 by DefenseWinsChampionships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 6 hours ago, mse326 said: Do you really no see the contradiction here? I see no contradiction in the Dallas Cowboys being in SALARY CAP HELL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: Now let's look at their on field statistical production throughout their first 8 years (for a much better example). Funny. You started off by saying this: 2 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: Aaron Donald still has a long ways to go before he "passes" Bruce Smith (wake me up when his on the field production actually, you know; surpasses the production of Bruce Smith). I demonstrated this, and you changed the parameters to fit your argument. Even then, you compared 108 games vs 127 games and then try to paint that as a “much better example”. Greatest ability is availability, right? I’m not sure if you’re willfully moving the goalposts to win the argument, or if you think this is correct. It also seems as if you’re fixated on sack numbers, to which I quote what was already said earlier in the discussion: 1 hour ago, mse326 said: And if you are saying we have to compare the stats of a DE and DT you really need to reevaluate how to judge the positions against each other In your words - tell me why sacks are a poor point of comparison between a DT in a 34 and a DE in a 34. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotun_Fan Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Aaron Donald is still going strong. We have to wait to reserve final judgement, but it seems like he's on pace to have a serious case as the best D Lineman of all time in my book. I guess my current list would be something like: 1) White 2) Donald 3) Smith 4) Deacon 5) Page 6) Greene 7) Lilly Good question for a forum like this...earlier eras were so different, so you can make a good case for a lot of these players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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