Russell Wilson traded to Broncos for Noah Fant, Shelby Harris, Drew Lock, two 1sts, two 2nds

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, Mesa_Titan said:

I’m not saying that the trade should have been impacted because he could get injured, I’m talking about looking at the trade down the line. 

Sure, but that's not a good way to evaluate trade merit.   Injury outcomes are the one X factor that skews results, as you acknowledge. 

It doesn't change the result, but getting the process right is more important in the long run.   I get maybe that wasn't your point, but it's still worth acknowledging, just so some oversimplified conclusions don't get drawn later on.

[SaveOurSonics]

30 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

On the flip side, not sure if a rookie HC/GM would want their first major move to be trading the HOF QB. 

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. 

[SaveOurSonics]

15 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Meh, Sutton is criminally underrated and DK is criminally overrated. Every time DK is matched up with a good corner he gets locked up and pouts like a child. 

Bad take is bad. It’s more like Russ refused to test good corners when they were on DK. We all remember him mollywhopping Darius Slay on primetime. 

He pouts because he’s an alpha who should get the ball regardless of who’s lined up across from him. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by SaveOurSonics

[49ersfan]

3 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. 

I wonder if the plan was for Carroll to stick around for the rebuild and in 1-2 years you hire a new HC who doesn't have the reputation of trading Wilson as their first major move.

So, maybe it wasn't choosing Carroll over Wilson; maybe it was get rid of Wilson in 2022, and then Carroll in 2023/2024? The sentiment I've seen on another forum (think it was Reddit) was that Sean Desai was seen as a HC in waiting for the Seahawks?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, 49ersfan said:

I wonder if the plan was for Carroll to stick around for the rebuild and in 1-2 years you hire a new HC who doesn't have the reputation of trading Wilson as their first major move.

So, maybe it wasn't choosing Carroll over Wilson; maybe it was get rid of Wilson in 2022, and then Carroll in 2023/2024? The sentiment I've seen on another forum (think it was Reddit) was that Sean Desai was seen as a HC in waiting for the Seahawks?

Why would you want a lame duck HC in charge of a rebuild he's not going to be there to reap the benefits of?

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Bad take is bad. It’s more like Russ refused to test good corners when they were on DK. We all remember him mollywhopping Darius Slay on primetime. 

He pouts because he’s an alpha who should get the ball regardless of who’s lined up across from him. 

FWIW DK also had a screw removed from his foot this offseason.   IIRC he had a Jones fracture before.   It's VERY possible he had pain in his foot limiting his ability to play at peak levels last season - there's no other reason he'd need to have the offseason surgery.

I do think it's fair to say DK may not have been at peak levels this past year, especially in 2H.   That also only helps the argument Wilson is likely to play a LOT better in Denver, though.   But it might explain DK's down 2022, although again I'd argue Carroll's philosophy and their ridiculous game management / scheme simplicity (which Greg Olsen alluded to heavily yesterday, so it's not just me here) was a huge factor for everyone on SEA's QB/WR corps.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Broncofan

[Soggust]

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Okay, that's, uh, interesting.

I respectfully think you are in the minority in thinking any Denver WR is better than either DK or TL, at this point. They might have an argument after next year, but that's a tough case to make today.

 

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

With or without Russell Wilson? Because without him they have been a 4-5 win team. If you're saying they're going to now win 10 games, I just want to know who you think is playing QB for that team and how that person is better than Drew Lock or Trevor Siemien.

I 100% agree I think you are optimistic about 4-5 more wins with Wilson, but just clarifying for the record - since Manning left and Siemien took over (which I think is generous because one could argue 2015 should be included with garbage QB play), Denver has been a 5-9 win team and hasn't hit 4 wins once. But that's just nitpicking a detail, I think your overall point here is correct.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, Soggust said:

I respectfully think you are in the minority in thinking any Denver WR is better than either DK or TL, at this point. They might have an argument after next year, but that's a tough case to make today.

It's easy to ignore their production because they've had absolute trash at QB their whole careers while DK and TL have had Russell Wilson.

Just now, Soggust said:

 

I 100% agree I think you are optimistic about 4-5 more wins with Wilson, but just clarifying for the record - since Manning left and Siemien took over (which I think is generous because one could argue 2015 should be included with garbage QB play), Denver has been a 5-9 win team and hasn't hit 4 wins once. But that's just nitpicking a detail, I think your overall point here is correct.

Sorry yes, they've been floating between 5-7 every year sans the year after Manning retired. It's still very easy for me to say that Wilson makes them a 10 win team.

[Soggust]

14 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Besides Marshawn Lynch, Russell Wilson will finally have a RB that can actually run in Javonte Williams lol

2018-2019  Chris Carson were super solid years. 

I'd take healthy Chris Carson over JW in the 4 games he is healthy for, quite frankly.

[Mesa_Titan]

We will see this year. DK is going to be in full AB mode by week 4 with Lock. 

[Soggust]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

It's easy to ignore their production because they've had absolute trash at QB their whole careers while DK and TL have had Russell Wilson.

Yep, and if they put up DKish numbers with RW they will certainly be in the conversation next year.

But there is a MASSIVE amount of projection going on to try to make a case for them currently.

[SaveOurSonics]

31 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Given that Wilson would only waive his no-trade clause for Denver, this is as good as they could do.   I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

This is what has been really bothering me. We didn’t HAVE to trade him. We were not leverage-less. The Broncos should’ve frankly been DESPERATE to land a guy like Russ and we couldn’t even get a young foundation piece like Javonte, Jeudy, or Surtain out of it? 

Aaron Rodgers came out publicly and said “I will not play another down for Green Bay” and they managed to reconcile with him. You’re telling me we couldn’t do that with Russ? You’re telling me our newly inherited owner is so out of touch that she sided with a 70 year old coach over a HoF QB when it came time to play chicken? 

You’re telling me that Russ has complained for YEARS that the offensive system needs revamping and we’ve effectively ignored those requests to the point he demanded his exit? I guess Green Bay should’ve kept Mike McCarthy and traded Aaron Rodgers when those two had beef. 

This is the NFL. I don’t care if Russ “wants” out. You’re stuck. Tag him until he dies. 

I’m supposed to believe that a HC who has done nothing but neuter his offense and a GM who whiffs on valuable draft picks and gets choked out in every trade he makes is going to remake lightning in a bottle? 
 

What an absolute joke that my only opportunity to see Russ free of Pete will be when he dawns a new jersey. 

I can’t tell if I’m at the Anger or Depression phase of grief 😅

[Broncofan]

35 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

This is what has been really bothering me. We didn’t HAVE to trade him. We were not leverage-less. The Broncos should’ve frankly been DESPERATE to land a guy like Russ and we couldn’t even get a young foundation piece like Javonte, Jeudy, or Surtain out of it? 

Aaron Rodgers came out publicly and said “I will not play another down for Green Bay” and they managed to reconcile with him. You’re telling me we couldn’t do that with Russ? You’re telling me our newly inherited owner is so out of touch that she sided with a 70 year old coach over a HoF QB when it came time to play chicken? 

You’re telling me that Russ has complained for YEARS that the offensive system needs revamping and we’ve effectively ignored those requests to the point he demanded his exit? I guess Green Bay should’ve kept Mike McCarthy and traded Aaron Rodgers when those two had beef. 

This is the NFL. I don’t care if Russ “wants” out. You’re stuck. Tag him until he dies. 

I’m supposed to believe that a HC who has done nothing but neuter his offense and a GM who whiffs on valuable draft picks and gets choked out in every trade he makes is going to remake lightning in a bottle? 
 

What an absolute joke that my only opportunity to see Russ free of Pete will be when he dawns a new jersey. 

I can’t tell if I’m at the Anger or Depression phase of grief 😅

Man, I do feel for you & the fanbase.  These are excellent Q's.   I would say the Athletic has a great piece on how the FO braintrust really eroded the relationship between Wilson and the Hawks.   It's unfortunately paywalled, why I didn’t link it before, but I'll do it now.

https://theathletic.com/3171850/2022/03/09/i-dont-think-theres-any-trust-the-irreconcilable-differences-of-russell-wilson-seahawks/

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Broncofan

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

9 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

This is what has been really bothering me. We didn’t HAVE to trade him. We were not leverage-less. The Broncos should’ve frankly been DESPERATE to land a guy like Russ and we couldn’t even get a young foundation piece like Javonte, Jeudy, or Surtain out of it? 

Aaron Rodgers came out publicly and said “I will not play another down for Green Bay” and they managed to reconcile with him. You’re telling me we couldn’t do that with Russ? You’re telling me our newly inherited owner is so out of touch that she sided with a 70 year old coach over a HoF QB when it came time to play chicken? 

You’re telling me that Russ has complained for YEARS that the offensive system needs revamping and we’ve effectively ignored those requests to the point he demanded his exit? I guess Green Bay should’ve kept Mike McCarthy and traded Aaron Rodgers when those two had beef. 

This is the NFL. I don’t care if Russ “wants” out. You’re stuck. Tag him until he dies. 

I’m supposed to believe that a HC who has done nothing but neuter his offense and a GM who whiffs on valuable draft picks and gets choked out in every trade he makes is going to remake lightning in a bottle? 
 

What an absolute joke that my only opportunity to see Russ free of Pete will be when he dawns a new jersey. 

I can’t tell if I’m at the Anger or Depression phase of grief 😅

This post reads like the Anger phase, and you're not wrong.

[Dbrog24]

33 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

 

He pouts because he’s an alpha who should get the ball regardless of who’s lined up across from him. 

I honestly hope you don't start Drew Lock or you will see this x1000. It got so bad to the point where most of the Broncos receivers were barely even running routes because they knew if it was a deep ball, it would be 5ft minimum over their heads or just directly in the stands. Even "smarter Drew" was just chucking it down to the first open read or trying to run to his right and cause a fumble. I don't think a lot of people here know just how bad Lock is.