SkippyX Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) FYI, Warren Moon at age 65 might be able to throw 20 TDs from a clean pocket. Getting a chance to throw 21 TDs from a clean pocket means you have a very good O-line. Brady Quinn could probably play in the NFL if you guaranteed him a clean pocket. (OK, maybe not) Its not really a compliment to talk about a QB's clean pocket numbers. Edited March 11, 2022 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, aceinthehouse said: Then I remembered that Wentz actually led a team (philly) to an 11-2 record before getting hurt. Something Cousins hasn't & will never be able to do. That was several seasons, injuries and bad decisions ago. Wentz was the Eagles' wunderkind because he could throw with some accuracy and was mobile. But the more he used his mobility, the more he got injured. The more he got injured, the more Peterson encouraged him to bulk up and stay in the pocket. And the more he stayed in the pocket, the more he tried to play hero ball and all his weaknesses as a traditional passer were exposed. And the more his weaknesses as a traditional passer were exposed, the more he resented Peterson and the team. Now he gets hurt a lot and he's miserable, playing for his third organization in as many years. So he might win you a few more games than Kirk Cousins, but he won't stick around long enough for it to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Cousins finished 2019 going 8-3 with a 112.8 rating. In two of his losses his team scored 30 and 23 points and he had 5 TDs and a pick in those losses. He had 23 TDs to 4 picks in those 11 games. Yes GB crushed him in the other loss. Then he won a playoff game over Brees and the Saints (not that one) The idea that Cousins can't play at a very high level once in his career (like Wentz) is clearly false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 30 minutes ago, JetsCrash said: Dak is the best and this should not even be a debate. Dak was the best because he was better than Taylor Heinike, Daniel Jones & Jalen Hurts. The worst division in football regarding QB starters. Not to mention the weapons they surrounded Dak with, compared to the other 3 teams as well. Let's see what happens when Wentz has those weapons to throw too as well. He already has the best WR in the Division. Let's see what happens when Washington adds an Allen Robinson or Amari Cooper, etc. If Curtis Samuels can get right, there's another. And don't sleep on WR Dyami Brown. And you know Logan Thomas is a stud. But recovery from injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, SkippyX said: Carson Wentz had slightly better measurables at the combine over Dak for the most part. There is not much after that to say he is a better talent / athlete / QB than Dak. I always point out that they are close in that 2017-present range, but Dak is always ahead. He went #2 overall in the draft and Dak went much later. This is also true of RGIII and Russell Wilson. You can argue if its Dak at 8 and Wentz at 12 or 9 and 11 or whatever. Take rushing for example. Wentz had a faster 40 time (4.77 to 4.79) but Wentz is a 4.1 ypc runner with 9 TDs while Dak is a 4.8 runner with 25 TDs. Rushing yards are 1460 Dak to 1276 Wentz. Both guys are elusive in the pocket behind mostly excellent lines but Dak has a 5.7% sack rate and Wentz is at 6.6% (Both had brief periods playing behind injury bad lines but these guys are both top 5 in best lines in front of them since 2016) Wentz had better ball velocity at the combine (57 to 54) but I'd say both guys are well above average but no Josh Allen in the pros. Wentz is clearly the better cap value at 3 and 81 while Dak is at 3 and 142 or so with voidable year crap. (but I don't think anyone was arguing cap value) 1. Wentz is more athletically gifted 2. Outside of 2016, the Eagles OL has been consistently better. I would argue we have been a huge disappointment on the OL with how much we invested in it. 3. Wentz is clearly a mental midget which is why Dak is the better QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsCrash Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, aceinthehouse said: Dak was the best because he was better than Taylor Heinike, Daniel Jones & Jalen Hurts. The worst division in football regarding QB starters. Not to mention the weapons they surrounded Dak with, compared to the other 3 teams as well. Let's see what happens when Wentz has those weapons to throw too as well. He already has the best WR in the Division. Let's see what happens when Washington adds an Allen Robinson or Amari Cooper, etc. If Curtis Samuels can get right, there's another. And don't sleep on WR Dyami Brown. And you know Logan Thomas is a stud. But recovery from injury. Yeah, Dak has not had competition to deal with in the NFC East QB-wise. I actually like Washington's weapons a lot (when healthy), but they do not really have cap room after this trade to make a big receiver signing. Wentz has not shown me anything really encouraging since 2019 and the Colts roster last year was really good (good defense, best RB, top O-line, admittedly weak receivers but still had a very good one in Pittman), so he had the support he needed. The weapons on Washington are probably slightly better, but the O-line is worse (especially if Scherff is not there). The defense (while good on paper) was very disappointing last year, so it will need to do all it can to support Wentz and make up for potential costly turnovers. Dak is more productive than Wentz, so he still remains the better QB to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: 1. Wentz is more athletically gifted 2. Outside of 2016, the Eagles OL has been consistently better. I would argue we have been a huge disappointment on the OL with how much we invested in it. 3. Wentz is clearly a mental midget which is why Dak is the better QB. I think you might be mixing up IQ and EQ but Wentz is truly horrific at leadership and teammate aspects of being a QB. Alshon hated his guts (Alshon is a very selfish dude too but Wentz did nothing to work on the relationship) Bro would not talk to Doug Pederson for like 5 weeks at a time in 2020. The Cowboys O-line thing is your biggest hole in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 PFF rankings of Cowboys lines: 2016 - 1st 2017 - 4th 2018 - 14th 2019 - 4th 2020 - 27th (Dak played 5 games) 2021 - 2nd Seriously, its a bad look. Let it go already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, SkippyX said: The Cowboys O-line thing is your biggest hole in reality. Having watched every snap, I can tell you its not. We were horrific in the second half of 2017. We were literally ranked 32 in the first half of 2018. After going through 3 sets of coaches, we were once again the worst in the NFL the second half of 2021 (in pass blocking). You guys have been better. Weve been over hyped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SkippyX said: PFF rankings of Cowboys lines: 2016 - 1st 2017 - 4th 2018 - 14th 2019 - 4th 2020 - 27th (Dak played 5 games) 2021 - 2nd Seriously, its a bad look. Let it go already. Now do PBWR, which isnt subjective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 The best 6 defenders in 2021 were: T-1 Myles Garrett T-1 Robert Quinn T-3 Aaron Donald T-3 Josh Sweat 🦅 T-5 JD Clowney T-5 TJ Watt Weird, that's not how anyone though about 2021 but clearly pass rush win rate says so. (and its objective) Previously I had thought of Josh Sweat as a good dude and a top 2 NFC East Sweat DE but now he is the same as Aaron Donald. This is great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 On 3/10/2022 at 1:07 AM, ET80 said: It isn’t Lol, savage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 6 hours ago, SkippyX said: The best 6 defenders in 2021 were: T-1 Myles Garrett T-1 Robert Quinn T-3 Aaron Donald T-3 Josh Sweat 🦅 T-5 JD Clowney T-5 TJ Watt Weird, that's not how anyone though about 2021 but clearly pass rush win rate says so. (and its objective) Previously I had thought of Josh Sweat as a good dude and a top 2 NFC East Sweat DE but now he is the same as Aaron Donald. This is great! I dont think this proves your point as strongly as you do. All 6 names of the people you posted are extremely talented and athletically insane. Also best pass rusher =/= best defender. So thats not a great choice of words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOUCAN Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Wentz is better than Dak @Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 7 hours ago, SkippyX said: The best 6 defenders in 2021 were: T-1 Myles Garrett T-1 Robert Quinn T-3 Aaron Donald T-3 Josh Sweat 🦅 T-5 JD Clowney T-5 TJ Watt Weird, that's not how anyone though about 2021 but clearly pass rush win rate says so. (and its objective) Previously I had thought of Josh Sweat as a good dude and a top 2 NFC East Sweat DE but now he is the same as Aaron Donald. This is great! Happy we locked him up for years to come 🔐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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