Detroit Lions ink WR DJ Chark to one year deal

[Miblue]

11 hours ago, ET80 said:

Would the Lions take the risk on a guy like Malik Willis? Goff is basically a seat warmer right now, so it would give Willis the time he needed to get his skillset right…

They could also grab that QBOTF with 32, get that 5th year option on their side.

This years crop of QBs is mediocre. None are better than Goff and I doubt any of their ceilings is higher than Goff….

 

best to wait for next year and get a guy like Bryce young

 

 

that said, if a dude like Desmond ridder is still on the board in the late 3rd,I wouldn’t be opposed

Edited March 16, 2022 by Miblue

[ET80]

4 minutes ago, Miblue said:

This years crop of QBs is mediocre. None are better than Goff and I doubt any of their ceilings is higher than Goff….

I vehemently disagree with this. I believe pretty much every QB with a 1st-2nd grade is both better than Goff as well as has a higher ceiling than Goff.

It’s a mediocre class, but Jared Goff is worse than mediocre.

[SkippyX]

So you mean that Goff can never get back to 2017-18 form or that all these guys can be better than that?

I'm not holding my breath for any of these new QBs to put up 60 TDs in years 2 and 3 combined.

 

2021 Detroit Goff had 19 TDs to 8 picks with a 91.5 rating with a fairly horrific offense.

• He had a 100 rating from weeks 8 through 17
• He had a 96.8 rating from weeks 1 to 4
• Is he trash because of 3 games in October @ Minny and vs both Super Bowl teams?

He performed somewhere between Stafford 2018 and Stafford 2020. (with worse players)

I really don't get the evidence ignoring dislike to the point of rookie QB hit and miss denial.

 

[SkippyX]

The plague on mankind Goff 2019-2020 was 18-13 with 42 TDs and 29 picks and an 88.1 rating.

• You want Rivers 2011-2012, or Rivers 2015-2016, or Rivers 2019-20 for comparisons?
• How about Matt Ryan 14-15, or Ryan 20-21?
• How about Derek Carr 17-18?
• How about Baker in years 2 and 4?
• Look at the middle of Elway's career.
• Look at every year of Jim Kelly not 1990-1992
• How about Marino 88-89?
• How about 3 time MVP runner up Cunningham in 94 and 95?
• Lamar Jackson had a great 3 year run but he had a bad year so now what?

People who think good QBs are good every year are not paying attention.

Edited March 16, 2022 by SkippyX

[SkippyX]

The 12th and 18th rated QBs of 2019 met in the NFCCG the next year.

Goff was 17th this year, on the team we heard for a decade that it was garbage even when it wasn't (it sure was this year)

He was 12 spots ahead of the best rookie QB prospect in years.

Goff's backup had to play 3 games this year. He was worse than Jordan Love with that team around him.

Edited March 16, 2022 by SkippyX

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

I vehemently disagree with this. I believe pretty much every QB with a 1st-2nd grade is both better than Goff as well as has a higher ceiling than Goff.

It’s a mediocre class, but Jared Goff is worse than mediocre.

Bro, no way.

[ET80]

30 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Bro, no way.

Bro, way.

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Bro, way.

Two Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl appearance, two top 10 QB seasons, led the highest scoring offense in 2017, led the #2 offense in 2018, led a top 10 offense in 2019, and despite having almost no skill talent around him in 2021 and an OC who was stripped of play-calling duties midway through the season, he finished #17 in passer rating. The idea that every QB with a first/second round grade is better than Goff is nuts. Goff isn't a guy who will carry a team, but he's not a bum.

[ET80]

13 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Two Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl appearance, two top 10 QB seasons, led the highest scoring offense in 2017, led the #2 offense in 2018, led a top 10 offense in 2019, and despite having almost no skill talent around him in 2021 and an OC who was stripped of play-calling duties midway through the season, he finished #17 in passer rating. The idea that every QB with a first/second round grade is better than Goff is nuts. Goff isn't a guy who will carry a team, but he's not a bum.

All of the big accomplishments with Sean McVay in his ear, reading the defense for him at the LOS. Take that away and you have a guy who is not too far off from bum status at the least. If your only accolade you can give him post McVay is 17th in passer rating, you’re not exactly ringing an endorsement for him.

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

All of the big accomplishments with Sean McVay in his ear, reading the defense for him at the LOS. Take that away and you have a guy who is not too far off from bum status at the least.

I'm amused that you think it's that simple. If that's the secret to success, why don't other teams do it? If they do, why weren't their QBs as successful? Why couldn't Detroit do it with Goff? Why did it stop working in 2020?

Quote

If your only accolade you can give him post McVay is 17th in passer rating, you’re not exactly ringing an endorsement for him.

He's only played 1.5 years without McVay. So this is a foolish argument. 17th in passer rating while having arguably the worst supporting cast in football and an inept play-caller for more than half the season is far from "bum status." Unless you think "bum status" is any QB who isn't Derek Carr or better.

[ET80]

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I'm amused that you think it's that simple. If that's the secret to success, why don't other teams do it?

Because Sean McVay is a unicorn, and unicorns don’t exist everywhere.

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

He's only played 1.5 years without McVay. So this is a foolish argument. 17th in passer rating while having arguably the worst supporting cast in football and an inept play-caller for more than half the season is far from "bum status." Unless you think "bum status" is any QB who isn't Derek Carr or better.

I’d argue there were worse supporting casts and coaching situations (Houston, for example). Yet, rookie Davis Mills wasn’t too far off in QB Rating - am I supposed to suddenly think he’s not a bad QB, simply because of one metric?

My overall stance In regarded to your argument is that QB rating is an absolutely horrible metric to base anything on for ranking QBs. By this metric, MVP Josh Allen is 16th, would you say that the gap between Allen and Goff is that close? No, you wouldn’t be a you’re a rational person.

QB rating is one of many metrics that need to be used. Goff has a good number there, but everything else - TD/INT ratio, YPA - draws a picture of a QB that checked down a lot and couldn’t really generate offense.

I call that mediocre.

[SteelKing728]

12 hours ago, Miblue said:

This years crop of QBs is mediocre. None are better than Goff and I doubt any of their ceilings is higher than Goff….

 

best to wait for next year and get a guy like Bryce young

 

 

that said, if a dude like Desmond ridder is still on the board in the late 3rd,I wouldn’t be opposed

That would be ideal, but I could see having to make a small trade up for Ridder.

Willis and Pickett should be locks for rd 1 and then Howell and Corral go round 2. Ridder should be there in the late 2nd. There are still quite a few QB needy teams out there.

[OkeyDoke21]

This is my favorite signing, to this point of free agency. 

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Because Sean McVay is a unicorn, and unicorns don’t exist everywhere.

Sean McVay is a unicorn because of his coaching skills. He's not a unicorn in his ability to read a defense.

Quote

I’d argue there were worse supporting casts and coaching situations (Houston, for example). Yet, rookie Davis Mills wasn’t too far off in QB Rating - am I supposed to suddenly think he’s not a bad QB, simply because of one metric?

Davis Mills had a better supporting cast until the second half of the year when Decker returned and the Detroit OL started playing well.

Quote

My overall stance In regarded to your argument is that QB rating is an absolutely horrible metric to base anything on for ranking QBs. By this metric, MVP Josh Allen is 16th, would you say that the gap between Allen and Goff is that close? No, you wouldn’t be a you’re a rational person.

There are many metrics to use. It's a good one. Are Allen and Goff that close? No. Using that metric doesn't mean you have to ignore context and all other stats.

Quote

 

QB rating is one of many metrics that need to be used. Goff has a good number there, but everything else - TD/INT ratio, YPA - draws a picture of a QB that checked down a lot and couldn’t really generate offense.

I call that mediocre.

 

You just told us earlier that Goff is worse than mediocre and not far off bum status. If he's mediocre, that's fine. But many of the guys in this QB class aren't even expected to be mediocre starting QBs. And yes, Goff did check down a lot. Unsurprisingly, that's because he had very little at WR. His top three WRs were a rookie slot (who played good football down the stretch, when Goff and the rest of the Lions offense also played good football), a WR the Titans cut midyear who had been Goff's #4 WR in LA, and a career special teamer.

I don't think anybody here disagrees that Goff isn't going to elevate talent around him. You give him a bad supporting cast, and he's not going to carry the offense on his back. He's an average starting QB at this stage.

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

That would be ideal, but I could see having to make a small trade up for Ridder.

Willis and Pickett should be locks for rd 1 and then Howell and Corral go round 2. Ridder should be there in the late 2nd. There are still quite a few QB needy teams out there.

They should just wait until next year. The QB Class is far better. If Goff is a bad QB, they'll be finishing near the top of the NFL again and will have the LAR 1st to use to trade up, if needed. Although, Ridder is a lot more palatable in the late second.