The 2023 Draft Thread - We're picking #7

[raidr4life]

16 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

What edge? That he hits hard? Because hitting hard for safety’s and cb’s doesn’t matter, actually a penalty. Coverage, he’s 5’11” and 31” arms. That can succeed on the outside, but how many corners have ever been a shutdown lockdown corner being 5’11” and 31” arms on the outside? You might be drafting a pretty good starter but Witherspoon becoming a lockdown guy would be extremely rare. The only guy I can think of the past couple decades being “close” to “lockdown” is Jaire Alexander and Alexander definitely isn’t a lockdown or shutdown corner. 

Gonzalez is great in coverage, 4.3 speed, 6’2”, and a great tackler. He doesn’t hit as hard as Witherspoon, but it’s 2023, i’m not looking for hard hitters. 

If I am picking a corner at #7 (super high for a corner) I want a Lockdown, Shutdown CB. The potential shutdown CB is Gonzalez imo. Just like Jets drafted Sauce at 3. I’m fine with Witherspoon with a trade down to like 12-13. 

Lmao you put Witherspoon on an island and that's all.

[Humble_Beast]

44 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

See that's what intrigues me. 

I get the appeal of Deablo. I get the point of moving him to LB. Totally understand the concept. 

But is he starter level between the ears, or a nice backup? 

If Skinner can one up him in the mental aspects, I can visualize a nifty weapon at LB. If he's there day 3, I'd take a stab at him for sure. Maybe he's good enough at S to stay there and replace whoever we have this year/next year down the road. Or, maybe he does what we want Deablo doing. Or, he could just suck and be a waste lol. 

I like Skinner as a day3 prospect. He does have potential, was good in college and has the traits. I just other prospects better in the 3rd. I think Deablo, Moehrig, Hobbs all have make or break years to see if they can be good starters going forward or just depth pieces. They all flashed as rookies then regressed in year2. Could be a year of adjusting to the system or maybe they arent made for the current system. I don't know, but hoping they bounce back. 

[BayRaider]

Just now, raidr4life said:

Lmao you put Witherspoon on an island and that's all.

How many CB’s in the NFL at 5’11” 31” arms have developed their own “island”?

[raidr4life]

11 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

How many CB’s in the NFL at 5’11” 31” arms have developed their own “island”?

You can keep asking that same question it doesn't mean anything. When I said Arron Donald would be the best player in his draft people like you rushed in talking about how short his arms were how light he was and so on, here we are a HOF career later. When I say he plays with an edge, he play's with fire a superiority like he knows he belongs, confidence, it has nothing to do with hitting

[big_palooka]

22 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

What edge? That he hits hard? Because hitting hard for safety’s and cb’s doesn’t matter, actually a penalty. Coverage, he’s 5’11” and 31” arms. That can succeed on the outside, but how many corners have ever been a shutdown lockdown corner being 5’11” and 31” arms on the outside? You might be drafting a pretty good starter but Witherspoon becoming a lockdown guy would be extremely rare. The only guy I can think of the past couple decades being “close” to “lockdown” is Jaire Alexander and Alexander definitely isn’t a lockdown or shutdown corner. 

Gonzalez is great in coverage, 4.3 speed, 6’2”, and a great tackler. He doesn’t hit as hard as Witherspoon, but it’s 2023, i’m not looking for hard hitters. 

If I am picking a corner at #7 (super high for a corner) I want a Lockdown, Shutdown CB. The potential shutdown CB is Gonzalez imo. Just like Jets drafted Sauce at 3. I’m fine with Witherspoon with a trade down to like 12-13. 

It's not about hitting hard. It's about the intensity he brings on the field. His toughness and physicality. Similar to how Jaire Alexander plays the game. 

As a CB, while he doesn't have the measurables of Gonzalez, he has better instincts and feel. He reads things really well. Locates the ball and closes quick to breakup passes. He has a Maxx Crosby like mentality. Hungry, brings it for 60 mins. He's a Dawg. 

Gonzalez, has all the measurables but is more finesse. Needs to work on tackling better and being more physical. 

Both are great players, would be happy with both. But sometimes (ex. Jeff Okudah) we overvalue measurables when CB is a position that has nuanced balls skills and takes some edge. 

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

It's not about hitting hard. It's about the intensity he brings on the field. His toughness and physicality. Similar to how Jaire Alexander plays the game. 

As a CB, while he doesn't have the measurables of Gonzalez, he has better instincts and feel. He reads things really well. Locates the ball and closes quick to breakup passes. He has a Maxx Crosby like mentality. Hungry, brings it for 60 mins. He's a Dawg. 

Gonzalez, has all the measurables but is more finesse. Needs to work on tackling better and being more physical. 

Both are great players, would be happy with both. But sometimes (ex. Jeff Okudah) we overvalue measurables when CB is a position that has nuanced balls skills and takes some edge. 

Okudah’s hype should have died when he ran a 4.5 at the combine. 

[BayRaider]

3 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

You can keep asking that same question it doesn't mean anything. When I said Arron Donald would be the best player in his draft people like you rushed in talking about how short his arms were how light he was and so on, here we are a HOF career later. When I say he plays with an edge, he play's with fire a superiority like he knows he belongs, confidence, it has nothing to do with hitting

Clowney, Mack, Donald were actually my Top 3 players in that class and Top 3 for the Raiders Big Board. I absolutely loved Aaron Donald. I have never seen a DT just manhandle people like he does. As for Witherspoon, there is nothing generational about the guy. Nothing superstar potential about the guy. Should be a very good starter but that is so underwhelming for #7. 

[BayRaider]

Also if we are really expecting Witherspoon to be the next Alexander…. we don’t have Witherspoon’s testing numbers for that. Alexander tested VERY well for someone 5’10” and 31” arms. Great combine. And blazing 4.38 speed. Have you seen Alexander close in on a receiver/ball in the NFL? He catches up blazing quick. The 4.3 speed shows. His catch up speed to swat the ball is his best trait. 

Witherspoon, all we have is a Pro Day 40 where he ran 4.42. It’s standard rule of thumb to take off at least a bare minimum 0.05 off a Pro Day time meaning he runs 4.47 at the absolute fastest. And if he ran at the combine, I would say he probably runs a 4.49ish based off his game tape. He will not have the same elite Alexander closing speed. And Alexander is by far his closest comparison size wise for a successful outside corner. 

[big_palooka]

Man.. I don't know how he ends up in the NFL, but I will always root for Anthony Richardson:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/anthony-richardson-nfl-football-florida-gators

You can tell this is bigger than football for him. Guys like that work tirelessly for it, it's hard to count them out. 

[BayRaider]

Not trying to diss peoples favorite, good to have a different set of opinions, that’s what forums are for. An agreefest is boring and non-challenging. I still like Witherspoon a lot. He’s easily a 1st Round Corner for me. I have four first round corners in this draft:

1) Christian Gonzalez - Top 10

2) Joey Porter - Top 20

3) Deonte Banks - Top 20

4) Devon Witherspoon - Top 20

The final three are all neck and neck for me. 

I think by draft day, Banks will be my #2 CB. I am really, really liking the guy. He’s glue. Aggressive. Great size! And great speed right around 4.40 - 4.42. 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Man.. I don't know how he ends up in the NFL, but I will always root for Anthony Richardson:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/anthony-richardson-nfl-football-florida-gators

You can tell this is bigger than football for him. Guys like that work tirelessly for it, it's hard to count them out. 

Dude has passion. He’s hungry. Motivated. And he’s a smart kid. Apparently I heard he was #2 behind Bryce on the SO2 cognitive scores and scored really high. I’m curious how he did on the wonderlic as well. Some people could care leas about intelligence tests, but I think they are very important, especially for projects. Wonderlic usually comes out the day before the draft the past few years. No idea why. Use to be at the combine. 

[raidr4life]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Not trying to diss peoples favorite, good to have a different set of opinions, that’s what forums are for. An agreefest is boring and non-challenging. I still like Witherspoon a lot. He’s easily a 1st Round Corner for me. I have four first round corners in this draft:

1) Christian Gonzalez - Top 10

2) Joey Porter - Top 20

3) Deonte Banks - Top 20

4) Devon Witherspoon - Top 20

The final three are all neck and neck for me. 

I think by draft day, Banks will be my #2 CB. I am really, really liking the guy. He’s glue. Aggressive. Great size! And great speed right around 4.40 - 4.42. 

Banks is why I would be fine trading down for more picks

[big_palooka]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Not trying to diss peoples favorite, good to have a different set of opinions, that’s what forums are for. An agreefest is boring and non-challenging. I still like Witherspoon a lot. He’s easily a 1st Round Corner for me. I have four first round corners in this draft:

1) Christian Gonzalez - Top 10

2) Joey Porter - Top 20

3) Deonte Banks - Top 20

4) Devon Witherspoon - Top 20

The final three are all neck and neck for me. 

I think by draft day, Banks will be my #2 CB. I am really, really liking the guy. He’s glue. Aggressive. Great size! And great speed right around 4.40 - 4.42. 

I'm with you on Banks. 

I have them:

Witherspoon, Gonzalez, Banks, Forbes, Ringo 

[BayRaider]

15 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Banks is why I would be fine trading down for more picks

If I want to be really edgy and against the grain, I should just put Banks #1. Something screams at me “gem that people aren’t noticing because of Gonzalez/Witherspoon already engrained into their mind as 1/2”. 

[BayRaider]

If Levis falls to 38, would you guys be pounding for him? I think it’s very possible he could fall that far. I think 11 to TENN is his ceiling and 41 to TENN is his floor. 

I would still pass on him… too many good players in the second. I would pick him in the third, but he’s not falling that far. 

Just like Hurts in 2020. Some of my mocks were trading up for Tua, but 80% of my mocks had us selecting Hurts at 80/81. I loved Hurts as a project. At least half this sub did as well. Although I had a feeling some team would trade into the final few picks of the second and get him. And that’s exactly what happened. Wasn’t expecting it to be Philly though. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by BayRaider