AkronsWitness Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Those guys are far better than Sexton on offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsDog23 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I just don’t want the Cavs to take Toppin, he reminds me of Derrick Williams, Athletic forward who produced at a high level in college but lacks a true position and can’t reliably create his own shot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malibuspeedrace Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said: I just don’t want the Cavs to take Toppin, he reminds me of Derrick Williams, Athletic forward who produced at a high level in college but lacks a true position and can’t reliably create his own shot I feel his best case scenario is to be a Shawn Marion without the funky shot.. he was a good player...but wouldn’t help us a lick with where the team currently is. realistically, I think Derrick Williams is the accurate comp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: So your telling me, the offense is some what similar but Sexton is completely trash defensively? Whats the per36 and per100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BrownsDog23 said: I just don’t want the Cavs to take Toppin, he reminds me of Derrick Williams, Athletic forward who produced at a high level in college but lacks a true position and can’t reliably create his own shot Ehh Im not concerned with his position. Im more concerned that he is a Kevin Love level of turnstile on defense. Much of that is because hes too big and slow footed to take on SGs/SFs but he is too light to bang around with PFs/Cs. Toppin is a helluva mismatch on offense and a great player but hes just going to give it all back on the defensive side and teams are going to target him defensively. Having Sexton/Garland/Toppin on the floor at the same time might form the worst defensive unit in NBA history. Edited November 14, 2020 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, buno67 said: So your telling me, the offense is some what similar but Sexton is completely trash defensively? Whats the per36 and per100 DBPM is not a individual stat. I dont take any Cavs defenseive stats seriously because of how bad they were as a unit that it makes them all look terrible. Porter Jr. graded out as a negative defender and I can tell you he was easilly the most competent wing defender the Cavs have on their roster who wasnt truly terrible. Mitchell has a + DBPM because he played on a defensive oriented team his whole career which lifts everyones stats. Imagine Sexton having Ricky Rubio, Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert next to him defensively instead of Darius Garland and Kevin Love. Also those numbers are comparing their stats at the same age of 21. Essentially meaning its too early to judge anybody. At this point in Collin Sextons career he is putting up the same numbers as current All Stars Donovan Mitchell/Jamaal Murray who are older now. Its meant to show the potential trajectory of Sexton. I didnt see anybody else hating Mitchell/Murray when they were 21 averaging the same stats as Sexton is currently. Edited November 14, 2020 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBIso Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 @OhioG if pointing a gun at a child is wrong, then I don’t understand the world anymore. ...actually, WTF. I can’t believe that is even a thing that happened. Forget Beasley. Hope he tears his ACL on his way to the electric chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBIso Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 13 hours ago, BrownsDog23 said: I just don’t want the Cavs to take Toppin, he reminds me of Derrick Williams, Athletic forward who produced at a high level in college but lacks a true position and can’t reliably create his own shot I don’t want Toppin either, but he is an extremely polished scorer. He can get his shot from anywhere and is a great ball handler for a PF/C prospect. Toppin creating for himself is the least of my concerns with him. It’s his lack of defensive grit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, QBIso said: I don’t want Toppin either, but he is an extremely polished scorer. He can get his shot from anywhere and is a great ball handler for a PF/C prospect. Toppin creating for himself is the least of my concerns with him. It’s his lack of defensive grit. Apparently he is the target the Cavs are zeroing on on, unless it's a complete smoke screen. That's why all of these Love rumors are flying. They are making a strong push to dump Love to clear way for Toppin. He apparently met with the Cavs and explained to them in his interview how much he's improved his footwork and defense in this off-season. He made it sound like he understands that if doesn't fix his defense that teams with exploit him. Still not buying it, give me Okoro/Okongwu Edited November 14, 2020 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBIso Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I don’t hate Toppin...I just don’t see PF being a big need for us. We need a freaking long athletic defensive-minded wing. If we go with a big, I would hope it’s Okongwu or Wiseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, QBIso said: I don’t hate Toppin...I just don’t see PF being a big need for us. We need a freaking long athletic defensive-minded wing. If we go with a big, I would hope it’s Okongwu or Wiseman Right and I don't know how subbing out Love for Toppin makes the Cavs any better of a team on the short term. It's almost like a lateral move. The Cavs need to add to what they don't have and that would be defense on the wing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBIso Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Right and I don't know how subbing out Love for Toppin makes the Cavs any better of a team on the short term. It's almost like a lateral move. The Cavs need to add to what they don't have and that would be defense on the wing. Exactly. Toppin is a more explosive and somehow less gritty defensively version of Kevin Love. Their offensive games are very similar minus the big boost in explosion from Toppin. Their defense is equally bad, but Love’s seems to stem from foot speed and athletic limitations. Toppin’s seems to stem from a lack of caring. Not sure what’s worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: DBPM is not a individual stat. I dont take any Cavs defenseive stats seriously because of how bad they were as a unit that it makes them all look terrible. Porter Jr. graded out as a negative defender and I can tell you he was easilly the most competent wing defender the Cavs have on their roster who wasnt truly terrible. Mitchell has a + DBPM because he played on a defensive oriented team his whole career which lifts everyones stats. Imagine Sexton having Ricky Rubio, Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert next to him defensively instead of Darius Garland and Kevin Love. Also those numbers are comparing their stats at the same age of 21. Essentially meaning its too early to judge anybody. At this point in Collin Sextons career he is putting up the same numbers as current All Stars Donovan Mitchell/Jamaal Murray who are older now. Its meant to show the potential trajectory of Sexton. I didnt see anybody else hating Mitchell/Murray when they were 21 averaging the same stats as Sexton is currently. Its not about DBPM, im talking about DWS. Compared to Mitchell and Murray he is trash. You go to the per100 and look at the DRtg, the estimated points the player gives up per100 possessions, Sexton over his 2 years has given up an avg of 120. Murry is a 113 and Mitchell is at 108. Yes, not great numbers but not as bad as Sexton. Now you compared the ORtg, ppts they produced, Sexton is at 105, where Murray is at 110 and Mitchell is at 106. Sexton is at a difference of -15, where Murray is -3 and Mitchell is -2. At 21, Mitchell and Murray werent complete garbage at defense. When comparing them at 21, Murray and Mitchell could score just as well as Sexton but they were by far better facilitator and a lot better defenders. Those two are worthy of being starters. Sexton's best option is as a 6th man. Ill glady eat crow a few years down the road but I dont see Sexton being this stud. You could also say Murray and Mitchell have put up similar stats at similar stage but they were also going up against better defenses and schemes. Those guys were actually on teams competing for playoffs. So when they are getting late into the season, teams were still trying cause they are fighting them for playoff spots. Sexton and the Cavs were not getting the best out of opposing defenses. Opposing teams wanted to just get out of the Cleveland game healthy. No one was scheme defensively to get the ball out of Sexton's hands like they would vs other top pgs. Also with how bad Sexton and the Cavs were on defense, they had no problems having a shoot out cause they knew they were going to put up points. the only Cavs player thst is truly worth building around is KPJ. Everyone else should be moved if a good deal comes around Edited November 14, 2020 by buno67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just try and get Deni!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Love is what he is. He’s proven he hasn’t been able to carry a team. Toppin might not be better right away but I’d rather take a shot at the future and unknown than an injury prone expense soft big in their 30s. I think toppin has amare potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.