buno67 Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 6 hours ago, candyman93 said: When I watch Harden and Westbrook. I finally understand why OKC never won a title with them. They’re mental midgets. I really want GSW to win it all and then watch them come back down to earth. KD leaves and they trade Draymond. Let this run of titles be known as one of the goat runs and that they could have won 5 titles in a row if it wasn’t for that ‘16 Cavs team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 2 hours ago, buno67 said: I really want GSW to win it all and then watch them come back down to earth. KD leaves and they trade Draymond. Let this run of titles be known as one of the goat runs and that they could have won 5 titles in a row if it wasn’t for that ‘16 Cavs team I’d rather they didn’t. I’d love to see someone else win it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 (edited) Convince me otherwise. My Assessment: DeAndre Hunter (and to a lesser extent OR Jarrett Culver,), plus a quality player, and Major Future Draft Assets via a draft day trade down from the 1st or 2nd picks are far more valuable (especially in the case of drafting Hunter) than just drafting Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, or any other prospect outright in the draft. Cavs-Centric NBA Draft Big Board: Tier I: 1.) Ja Morant, PG Murray St. 2a.) DeAndre Hunter, SF Virginia 2b.) Zion Williamson, PF Duke 4.) Jarrett Culver, SG Texas Tech Tier II. 5.) RJ Barrett, SG Duke 6.) Coby White, CG North Carolina 7.) Cameron Reddish, SG Duke ----- I would've never thought I'd think this way about the draft at the start of the season, but actual game-play study has changed my mind. It's an unpopular opinion but if we land picks 1 or 2, we absolutely should trade down and accumulate tons of assets b/c the more film I've watched (from 4K All-22 of course) there's not that much separating the projected win-contribution impact between the top players 1 through 4 imo. Mostly I think this because I believe there is a hidden gem in this draft named DeAndre Hunter who happens to be a player that has the natural shot, play traits, athleticism, and intuitive feel for the game to be a Kawhi Leonard type impact player in the near future. I say he's a hidden gem b/c in a draft with really really good flash players with substance (Ja and Zion) Hunter might actually have the highest upside give the current trajectory of his skill development as well as the highest floor. It's harder to imagine that Zion will ever be an really good shooter off the dribble or otherwise (not that he necessarily needs to be) even as he develops more. Even without his flash dunks, Zion is a spectacular prospect for his play personality, intangibles, defensive versatility, and infectious energy. Hunter, however, has a more complete scoring, shot creation, and defensive skill set to develop from. He can already create his shot off the dribble and is a really good shooter. His utilization in the post took touches away from his ability to handle on the perimeter and create shots for others which he has the surprising ability to do when used that way. His length, size, and engaged energy on defense allows him to defend all 5 positions as well although his timing and feel for blocks is less than average and outshined by Kawhi and Zion types. Hunter can create out of the post much like Kawhi coming out of college. To be clear, Kawhi was the freakier athlete, far superior defender and shot blocker, and had an already developed skill set for shot creation in midrange with a tremendous midrange touch. Even still, I've come to the conclusion that DeAndre Hunter (and to a lesser extent OR Jarrett Culver,), plus a quality player, and Major Future Draft Assets are more valuable than just drafting Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, or any other prospect in the draft. Edited May 11, 2019 by Mind Character 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 Just take Zion or Ja. Maybe you’re right, but if you’re wrong it sets the Cavs back half a decade. Don’t overthink it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsDog23 Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 If the Cavs pick 1st I think they have to take Zion, but if they pick 2nd I think a trade down with a team that desperately needs a PG like is the Suns or Bulls. The Cavs move down a couple spots and pick up a extra lottery pick next year like the Hawks this previous draft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Just take Zion or Ja. Maybe you’re right, but if you’re wrong it sets the Cavs back half a decade. Don’t overthink it. (We know you're not reading this). It's not about overthinking; it's about me starting to actually attempt to become knowledgeable about the prospects in this draft and beginning to think in the first place and not just going off popular belief alone but assess the evidence behind the evaluations or beliefs. Before thinking really at all or researching anything, it was "Zion or Bust".. then whispers of some guy named Ja then soon after it became "Ja or Bust; there's only 2 high quality impact players in this draft." They are great players... really great prospects, but the question remained: Are there any other great prospects in the draft? To answer that, DeAndre Hunter was the one other clear player to be considered in my opinion and it surprised me a lot how similar he was to Kawhi Leonard college basketball skillset and as a result surprised me that he wasn't being talked about more. I then discovered Jarrett Culver's game and had him rated as being on the outside of the Ja, DeAndre, and Zion group. Then there was the question, beyond popular sentiment and the electricity of Zion, why exactly is Zion the safer option over the likes of a DeAndre Hunter type? The answer to that question surprised me as when it comes to the now and future natural Mid-Range and 3-Point shot making, now and future natural ability to create for others off the dribble, the now and future natural ability to shoot of the dribble, post game versatility scoring ability, and the natural ability to create one's shot off the dribble Hunter is superior to Zion along those critical basketball dimensions. Zion gets the nod along the dimensions of intangibles, block ability, team energy tone-setter, play personality, defensive upside, blocking ability, ability to finish through contact at the rim, and dunking ability. Both Zion and Hunter can guard all 5 positions with Hunter's length a great asset and Zion's size and athleticism and timing being key assets for him. So, it comes down to a debate between a limited offensive skillset, higher intangibles and energy giving, supreme defender skillset two-way prospect in Zion WIlliamson and a supremely diverse offensively gifted, lower intangibles/energy giving, great defender skillset two-way prospect in DeAndre Hunter. That means Hunter on his own merits gets a slight nod to Williamson as a prospect imo; therefore, making a trade down with the acquired assets that come with a trade back if we were positioned to get Zion definitely the winning move. I get the argument and make it myself with why we should just take Ja Morant. That's easy. By all accounts (it could be misinfo but misinfo is less likely in the nba draft process), the Cavs personnel types might prefer RJ Barrett over Ja so Ja could be out of the running for us unfortunately. than is Zion? Is he a guy that can get Edited May 11, 2019 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mind Character said: (We know you're not reading this). It's not about overthinking; it's about starting to actually attempt become knowledgeable about the prospects in this draft and beginning to think in the first place and not just going off popular belief alone but assess the evidence behind the evaluations or beliefs. Before thinking really at all or researching anything, it was "Zion or Bust".. then whispers of some guy named Ja then soon after it became "Ja or Bust; there's..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 41 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said: If the Cavs pick 1st I think they have to take Zion, but if they pick 2nd I think a trade down with a team that desperately needs a PG like is the Suns or Bulls. The Cavs move down a couple spots and pick up a extra lottery pick next year like the Hawks this previous draft They need to come away with RJ Barrett at whatever cost (unless its Zion). If they get screwed and drop to #5 or #6 I think Culver or Hunter are good plan B options. Im not sure how Ja Morant fits with Sexton. Maybe a Dame/McCollum type of backcourt with 2 PGs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: They need to come away with RJ Barrett at whatever cost (unless its Zion). If they get screwed and drop to #5 or #6 I think Culver or Hunter are good plan B options. Im not sure how Ja Morant fits with Sexton. Maybe a Dame/McCollum type of backcourt with 2 PGs? Good basketball players figure it out, especially when one of them is a great passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Good basketball players figure it out, especially when one of them is a great passer. True, especially with the NBA going to positonless basketball. However, a Morant/Sexton backcourt would be a defensive nightmare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 11, 2019 Author Share Posted May 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: True, especially with the NBA going to positonless basketball. However, a Morant/Sexton backcourt would be a defensive nightmare. There’d be some issues for sure, but I’d rather they just pick the best players and worry about fit later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Cam Reddish is the easiest way to lose. I might be talked into thinking its a decent idea with #24 overall (probably not) but anywhere in the top 10 and he stink stink stink stink sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I think much to spectators surprise the new draft lottery odds are going to produce some wild, unexpected results which is exactly what the NBA wants to legitimize its new lottery disincentivized higher odds. A lot of key teams will find themselves picking a lot lower than they thought. To my surprise though there are 3 franchise, multi, year in and year out all star players (Ja Morant, DeAndre Hunter, and Zion Williamson); 3 high quality starters with a lot of upside (RJ Barrett, Jarrett Culver, and Coby White). If we get a top 3 pick and take Morant, Hunter, or Williamson, it is a slam dunk. We're still going to get a really good player even if we pick in the top 6 13 hours ago, Mind Character said: 1.) Ja Morant, PG Murray St. 2a.) DeAndre Hunter, SF Virginia 2b.) Zion Williamson, PF Duke Tier II. 4.) RJ Barrett, SG Duke 5.) Jarrett Culver, SG Texas Tech 6.) Coby White, CG North Carolina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 19 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: They need to come away with RJ Barrett at whatever cost (unless its Zion). If they get screwed and drop to #5 or #6 I think Culver or Hunter are good plan B options. Im not sure how Ja Morant fits with Sexton. Maybe a Dame/McCollum type of backcourt with 2 PGs? If we are being honest, even with Sexton's improvement over the second part of the year, he doesn't have as close to the court vision Ja has. Having Morant would instantly make everyone on the court better, IMO you don't settle for above average when you have elite staring you right in the face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 On 5/11/2019 at 2:19 PM, BrownsDog23 said: If the Cavs pick 1st I think they have to take Zion, but if they pick 2nd I think a trade down with a team that desperately needs a PG like is the Suns or Bulls. The Cavs move down a couple spots and pick up a extra lottery pick next year like the Hawks this previous draft Horrible idea. Cavs need top talent and this draft only has about 3-4 legit players. Need to get other legit talent to play with Sexton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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