Sunday GDT: Around the League, but really Browns/Jags

[deeluxx3]

I legit feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, deeluxx3 said:

I legit feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.

I used to have the exact same mindset you did. It was always too early to judge a QB, give him more time, he's too young, etc, etc.

Do the research though.

What a QB is at this point in his career(speaking of Marcus) is generally what he's always going to be. There are exceptions to the rule, but it's far more often the case than it isn't.

And it's not a knock on Marcus. He's a good QB. I just think those expecting more than that are asking too much from him.

[deeluxx3]

2 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

I used to have the exact same mindset you did. It was always too early to judge a QB, give him more time, he's too young, etc, etc.

Do the research though.

What a QB is at this point in his career(speaking of Marcus) is generally what he's always going to be. There are exceptions to the rule, but it's far more often the case than it isn't.

And it's not a knock on Marcus. He's a good QB. I just think those expecting more than that are asking too much from him.

I've done plenty of research and have watched plenty of football. It's not a mindset at all. It's reality.

I genuinely have trouble making sense out of anything you're even saying. Drew Brees sure as hell wasnt elite in SD. Aaron rodgers took a while. Your Manning rationale is flawed, because suddenly decision making can be improved upon, regardless of rule changes.

 

I'm not saying marcus is going to be elite. But there are certainly things he does at 24 that guys RARELY DO at 24 (he was doing them at 23, too). Things like going 36:0 TD:INT in the red zone, being entrusted with complete LOS control (so we've been told at least), using his eyes to get guys open like he's a ten year vet. 

 

But he struggles throwing outside the numbers so...

 

like, do guys even improve to you? Was Tom Brady capable of throwing 50 TDs with that 18-1 team at age 25?

[KingTitan]

1 hour ago, titans0021 said:

Note: I'm mainly looking at old GDT's to verify that I'm not going insane and that they've always been exactly like they are now. Because that's what I've been saying all year. 

Keep in mind, we were never in the position we are now, record wise. At least not in the last few years, unless you went back to 2008.

[titans0021]

1 minute ago, KingTitan said:

Keep in mind, we were never in the position we are now, record wise. At least not in the last few years, unless you went back to 2008.

I actually did go back to 2008, they were similar. Admittedly, a little better, but the early season ones definitely had their fair share of complaining. I should go back and find that Steelers game in 08, has to be the happiest GDT in Titania history.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, titans0021 said:

I actually did go back to 2008, they were similar. Admittedly, a little better, but the early season ones definitely had their fair share of complaining. I should go back and find that Steelers game in 08, has to be the happiest GDT in Titania history.

That is when we had the good ol Vince vs. Kerry arguments. lol 
I guess your point is proven. There will always be arguments. Just could use a little more civil behavior.

[titans0021]

Just now, KingTitan said:

That is when we had the good ol Vince vs. Kerry arguments. lol 
I guess your point is proven. There will always be arguments. Just could use a little more civil behavior.

Yeah, everybody could just take it down a couple notches and I think we're fine. It is one of those things where we're good enough to have expectations, but not good enough to play at a level that will keep everyone happy on a week-to-week basis. It's easier to stay united as a fanbase when we're terrible, because we're all miserable, or when we're great, because we're all happy. We're in that middle ground that can lead to significant differences in opinion.

[TitanLegend]

7 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I've done plenty of research and have watched plenty of football. It's not a mindset at all. It's reality.

I genuinely have trouble making sense out of anything you're even saying. Drew Brees sure as hell wasnt elite in SD. Aaron rodgers took a while. Your Manning rationale is flawed, because suddenly decision making can be improved upon, regardless of rule changes.

 

I'm not saying marcus is going to be elite. But there are certainly things he does at 24 that guys RARELY DO at 24 (he was doing them at 23, too). Things like going 36:0 TD:INT in the red zone, being entrusted with complete LOS control (so we've been told at least), using his eyes to get guys open like he's a ten year vet. 

 

But he struggles throwing outside the numbers so...

 

like, do guys even improve to you? Was Tom Brady capable of throwing 50 TDs with that 18-1 team at age 25?

Brees' last two seasons in SD were very good. Numbers were different because different system, but he displayed franchise QB material in those seasons. If not for the shoulder injury(which some thought would end his career), he would have been an even hotter commodity than he was on the open market in 06(I think it was 06 anyway?). Rodgers first season was shaky(in comparison to what we expect of him now), but his 2nd year was fantastic(2nd as a starter, obviously, not counting the years he sat). I didn't say anything about Manning's decision making getting leaps and bounds better. I said it was easier for him to avoid INTs now because DBs couldn't bully WRs anymore. Manning ran the same exact system/style of play in 02 and 03 as he did in 04. It just got a hell of a lot easier to run in 04. There's a reason Irsay begged for those rule changes.

I dunno what age Brady was off the top of my head when he had already established himself so I dunno if at age 25 he could have done or it or not. Do guys improve? Sure. I even said Mariota can still improve some with experience vs different defenses allowing him to lessen the INTs/bad decisions.

I'm simply saying expecting him to jump up tiers in level of play is incredibly unrealistic expectations of a QB who has already played 36 games and shown you, in large part, what he's capable of.

Yes, Mariota has things he's great at. Never said otherwise.

[deeluxx3]

So were all elite QBs great at decision making and throwing outside the numbers in their first 2.25 years of playing? Asking for a friend

[TitanSlim]

Dak with a 3 INT night

Breaking News: Playing QB in the NFL is tough.

[KingTitan]

Regarding Marcus and keeping it thread related...
Looking at the QB play today should make even the loudest cynic of Mariota thankful he is a Titan.

Trubisky had 179 yards on 30 attempts
Kizer 179 on 32 attempts with 2 INTs, 3 fumbles and 2 lost.
Peterman 66 yards and 5 INTs and a fumble
Borltes  154 yards on 30 attempts 2 fumbles
Hundley  239 and 3 INTs 1 fumble

Even an "star" had a rought outing today..
Prescott ( as of now) 3 INTs 1 Fumble

And these were the teams BEST options...

We could cut Marcus today and he'd instantly be the highest paid QB in the league because of the bidding for him. (Probably overstating but trying to prove a point.  ) 

I posted this somewhere else before. 
Mariota is his 3rd year.  Let's look at some of the "stars" of today and yesteryear and see how they've fared through the years.

Big Ben- 18 TDs 23 INTs. Team missed the playoffs.
Drew Brees 11 TDs 15 INTs.  His team actually did run him out the city. 10 Pro Bowls, Super Bowl MVP, and many other accolades later he is a future Hall of Fame player. Pretty sure they'd love a little of that in San Diego....I mean LA right about now.  (Rivers is good and all...but)
Manning threw 26 TDs and 23 INTs in year 4. He had thrown 58 INTs and 85 TDs.  I could only imagine what it would have been like it he was the QB. "This big head mofo turns the ball over. We need someone who doesn't turn it over....like Jeff Garcia. That's someone we can build a team around."
McNair: Our Super Bowl year, he only threw 12 TDs and 8 INTs. Never threw over 3,500 yards, Never threw over 25 TDs. Yet is regarded as maybe the "Greatest Titan Ever."

I could keep digging but I don't feel like it.  You could also go the other way and see where teams crowned their guy too early only to see them falter after one good year. 

Point is...while Marcus has struggled some this year, he has been good enough to keep developing. Not even remotely in the discussion to move on. But still reasonable to not ready to claim him as the franchise savior. 

 

[KingTitan]

47 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Brees' last two seasons in SD were very good. Numbers were different because different system, but he displayed franchise QB material in those seasons. If not for the shoulder injury(which some thought would end his career), he would have been an even hotter commodity than he was on the open market in 06(I think it was 06 anyway?). Rodgers first season was shaky(in comparison to what we expect of him now), but his 2nd year was fantastic(2nd as a starter, obviously, not counting the years he sat). I didn't say anything about Manning's decision making getting leaps and bounds better. I said it was easier for him to avoid INTs now because DBs couldn't bully WRs anymore. Manning ran the same exact system/style of play in 02 and 03 as he did in 04. It just got a hell of a lot easier to run in 04. There's a reason Irsay begged for those rule changes.

I dunno what age Brady was off the top of my head when he had already established himself so I dunno if at age 25 he could have done or it or not. Do guys improve? Sure. I even said Mariota can still improve some with experience vs different defenses allowing him to lessen the INTs/bad decisions.

I'm simply saying expecting him to jump up tiers in level of play is incredibly unrealistic expectations of a QB who has already played 36 games and shown you, in large part, what he's capable of.

Yes, Mariota has things he's great at. Never said otherwise.

Kinda stole some of my thunder with your Brees and Manning info.... lol

I've read multiple times in various outlets, that we are developing a QB the right way. I think we over and under estimate Marcus.  I think some feel he is capable of being Super Bowl Manning out there calling audibles and just masterminding the game.
While some think he is nothing but an updated version of Alex Smith. 

But we've allowed him to grow at a good pace. Obviously he could improve in decision making and mechanics. He still is learning coverage and what people are throwing at him. If NFL was a college. I'd say he is working on his Masters degree. He has his Bachelors with full honors. Get the Masters. Work on that PH.D.

[TitanLegend]

43 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

So were all elite QBs great at decision making and throwing outside the numbers in their first 2.25 years of playing? Asking for a friend

Yes, I would certainly say the vast majority of great QBs display great decision making their first 2.25 years of playing. Like I said there are outliers, there is in everything in life, but on average, 36 games is enough to show what you are.

As far as throwing outside the numbers, I'm sure it varies from case to case. Some QBs are better outside the numbers than they are over the middle of the field. Middle of the field is generally more congested and can be harder to throw in to. I'm not entirely sure what causes Mariota's issues outside the numbers. I feel like some of it may have to do with how new it is to him. His entire college career he feasted on the middle of the defense. Not much of Chip Kelly and Mark Helfrich's offense went to the outside. Was all about getting their receivers in space to make plays, and Mariota's ability to read the defense over the middle of the field during the RPOs was 2nd to none at the college level. Throwing over the middle is just 2nd nature to him.

Some of his throws to Corey Davis this season on the outside have been promising. Seeing more of that on a consistent basis would be nice, but that would also require Corey Davis to know what route he's running on more than half the plays.

[footlunder]

So, the Jags won?    Not surprised.

 

[footlunder]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

Yes, I would certainly say the vast majority of great QBs display great decision making their first 2.25 years of playing. Like I said there are outliers, there is in everything in life, but on average, 36 games is enough to show what you are.

You've been telling us since last season that Mariota wasn't going to be elite . Newsflash, the majority of the media and fans feel the same way!  Some fans, bloggers, stat nerds, and media types that aren't mainstream think he can be but the majority think he's a good qb and will be a franchise qb for us for a decade.  For the love of God, stop preaching this like it's news.

IMO, Mariota is one of the better decision makers from the new group of QBs.  I've watched a lot of MM, Dak, Wentz, Carr, Winston, all of Kizer, Bortles, Goff (even last season) and i'd rank MM and Dak at the top.