Trevor Lawrence has arrived

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

He's 18th in the league in deep passing attempts. 24th in air yards per attempt. The guy is averaging 6.3 YPA by traditional metrics. He's playing more conservatively than a beat up and broken Ben Roethlisberger.

There’s no downfield threat on the Jaguars offense. Who’s taking the top off a defense on the roster?

[jrry32]

14 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I am not impressed with Captain Checkdown Trevor Lawrence. I also don't think it speaks very highly of a QB when on 3-15 at midfield with the game on the line, your team resorts to trickeration that makes no sense to push the ball downfield.

Except the play looks like it would have worked in a major way if Etienne hadn't stumbled.

[CKSteeler]

2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

There’s no downfield threat on the Jaguars offense. Who’s taking the top off a defense on the roster?

Who is taking the top off of defenses in KC? The deep passing stats Lawrence has put up over 1.5 years now are abysmal in a league where everything favors wide open passing. You can believe it's the WR's all you want - we've seen plenty of QB's make hay out of mediocre WR talent. Lawrence was sold as a once in a generation QB talent. 

Great QB's have a way of creating plays down field. Lawrence is mobile. He is big. He should be able to do more outside the scheme. Instead, he's playing like he wants to be the next Alex Smith.

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Who is taking the top off of defenses in KC? The deep passing stats Lawrence has put up over 1.5 years now are abysmal in a league where everything favors wide open passing. You can believe it's the WR's all you want - we've seen plenty of QB's make hay out of mediocre WR talent. Lawrence was sold as a once in a generation QB talent. 

Great QB's have a way of creating plays down field. Lawrence is mobile. He is big. He should be able to do more outside the scheme. Instead, he's playing like he wants to be the next Alex Smith.

Ok, well if 1.5 years in almost we’re still clinging to the draft status/pundits proclamations than go for it.

Hes clearly making progress and I’m not sure how you can come away from today (if you watched the game) to cast him in a negative light or think he was an issue. 

This game was lost due to the defense and a very unfortunate fumble by ETN inside the opposing teams 5 yard line. Doug also decided to go for it on the opposing teams 20 up by 4 on 4th and 1.

The offense is running smoothly. It just lacks a deep threat/X on the outside and it’s evident. The offense is being schemed to highlight what it does have, not force deep shots that haven’t worked when we’ve taken them as the map suggests (because again, there’s no 50/50/jump ball threat on said deep shots or a guy to take the top off).

[KhanYouDigIt]

8 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Who is taking the top off of defenses in KC?

Nobody, that’s why Patrick has a worse IAY/PA than Trevor.

[CKSteeler]

4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Ok, well if 1.5 years in almost we’re still clinging to the draft status/pundits proclamations than go for it.

I find it funny that over 1.5 years, Gardner Minshew outplayed the same guy. If it wasn't for draft status and hype, people wouldn't be sitting here looking with a fine tooth comb to find even the slightest bit of progress.

[.Buzz]

2 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I find it funny that over 1.5 years, Gardner Minshew outplayed the same guy. If it wasn't for draft status and hype, people wouldn't be sitting here looking with a fine tooth comb to find even the slightest bit of progress.

I mean if this is actually your take on the two then there’s a much deeper issue here.

Not much else can be gained here so I’ll go ahead and excuse myself.

[KhanYouDigIt]

8 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I find it funny that over 1.5 years, Gardner Minshew outplayed the same guy. If it wasn't for draft status and hype, people wouldn't be sitting here looking with a fine tooth comb to find even the slightest bit of progress.

Holy moly it gets better.

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

Nobody, that’s why Patrick has a worse IAY/PA than Trevor.

That’s true, and neither Lawrence (7.4) or Mahomes (7.0) have the deep ball howitzer of Mac Jones (10.3) in the high flying NE offense.

[CKSteeler]

6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

That’s true, and neither Lawrence (7.4) or Mahomes (7.0) have the deep ball howitzer of Mac Jones (10.3) in the high flying NE offense.

Patrick Mahomes is 4th in AYPA. Lawrence 15th. Mahomes completes 35% of his deep balls, which is a low point for him and he still plays defenses scared to death of what he can do deep. Lawrence isn't facing cover 2 shells half the time the way Mahomes still is with the corpse of Juju Smith Schuster as his top outside threat. Lawrence completes 26%. You want to see a QB manufacture a big play? Look at Mahomes buying time last week to complete a medium pass to Juju that went to the house with one broken tackle. Mahomes broke down the defense. 

Again, Lawrence is a mobile QB. He is bigger, stronger, and probably just about as fast as Mahomes if not faster. He does nothing to create. Would anyone actually have spent the 1st pick on Lawrence if they had all the game film we have on him after 1.5 seasons of his career? The answer is no. Hell no.

18 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I mean if this is actually your take on the two then there’s a much deeper issue here.

Not much else can be gained here so I’ll go ahead and excuse myself.

I mean, it's the cold hard reality? He won more games, he put up better numbers with probably a worse supporting cast. I know this blasphemy on a site filled with people who fancy themselves to be draft gurus, but Minshew deserved more and people go out of their way to make excuses for Lawrence. 

I'm a Steelers fan. I saw a very young Roethlisberger play with a group of WR's who lacked deep threat ability of any kind, and he still found a way to make big plays. He took a lot of hits doing it, and he faced a lot of criticism for it, but it won a lot of games.

Lawrence isn't winning close games because someone has convinced him to play like a 35 year old Alex Smith.

[Soko]

11 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Patrick Mahomes is 4th in AYPA. Lawrence 15th. Mahomes completes 35% of his deep balls, which is a low point for him and he still plays defenses scared to death of what he can do deep. Lawrence isn't facing cover 2 shells half the time the way Mahomes still is with the corpse of Juju Smith Schuster as his top outside threat. Lawrence completes 26%. You want to see a QB manufacture a big play? Look at Mahomes buying time last week to complete a medium pass to Juju that went to the house with one broken tackle. Mahomes broke down the defense. 

The mental gymnastics you’re going through to deny that the numbers (AKA the FACTS) are saying Mac Jones > Patrick Mahomes is astounding. 

[CKSteeler]

13 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

The mental gymnastics you’re going through to deny that the numbers (AKA the FACTS) are saying Mac Jones > Patrick Mahomes is astounding. 

Mac Jones > Trevor Lawrence thus far, even given how bad things were going before Jones was hurt.

Lawrence is a guy with all the physical tools. I called him captain checkdown, a fact which the only defense is to say that he doesn't have the deep threats at WR. Everything supports the claim, from the eye test to the advanced statistics. 

I'd rather watch the guy go down throwing 4 interceptions and showing some balls than this. You don't draft a guy #1 overall for him to play like this, certainly not in the modern NFL. Anyone really want to deny that?

[Soko]

28 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I'd rather watch the guy go down throwing 4 interceptions and showing some balls than this. You don't draft a guy #1 overall for him to play like this, certainly not in the modern NFL. Anyone really want to deny that?

Uh, yeah, I’d unequivocally rather my QB make reads and hit the open man 20 yards from the LOS than I would have him heave 4 picks to guys that are covered downfield, lol. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[CKSteeler]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Uh, yeah, I’d unequivocally rather my QB make reads and hit the open man 20 yards under the LOS than I would have him heave 4 picks to guys that are covered downfield, lol. 

And I'll go through the list of great QB's who racked up interceptions on bad teams early in their career who amounted to something. Because they took their lumps and tried to win games while learning.

You could get the same thing out of a UDFA that the Jags have gotten out of Lawrence right now. Oh, right...they got better out of a UDFA the two years before they brought him in...But that's blasphemy around here because Minshew didn't have the physical tools that Lawrence has which he doesn't make use of 99% of the time, anyway.

[Soko]

1 minute ago, CKSteeler said:

And I'll go through the list of great QB's who racked up interceptions on bad teams early in their career who amounted to something. Because they took their lumps and tried to win games while learning.

As you squire for me and accumulate this long list (with citations, and cliff notes, mind you), I will bask in the leathery pigskin glow your admittance that Mac Jones > Patrick Mahomes, and FYI I will not be entertaining a single word from you that either A) doesn’t acknowledge this, or B) tries to refute it. Go make my list, don’t miss any.