State of the Steelers

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, 43M said:

I guess we will see just how much the Steelers value Sutton.   They obviously like him, but enough to give him CB1 money?   

I personally dont view him as a CB1 caliber player.   We havent had one of them since Woodson IMO (some will say Ike Taylor, and Ill just leave it at "I disagree").   This team either needs a true top CB or a front 7 capable of creating constant pressure ala late 2000's Steelers.

Rumor is no tag for Sutton. Those numbers are $18.1 mil for franchise and $15.8mil for transition. Like if you wanted to keep him and thought he’s worth $15mil AAV, that transition tag is worth it in a year that teams have cap and FAs suck. Like just to have the right to match the deal is worth it. 

[AFF]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Rumor is no tag for Sutton. Those numbers are $18.1 mil for franchise and $15.8mil for transition. Like if you wanted to keep him and thought he’s worth $15mil AAV, that transition tag is worth it in a year that teams have cap and FAs suck. Like just to have the right to match the deal is worth it. 

I say he gets roughly 3/$39 mill..Steelers try to do lower year 1 cap hit so something like 9/15/15.

Id be fine with that unless I’m getting somebody like Dean for close to that.

[3rivers]

16 minutes ago, AFF said:

I say he gets roughly 3/$39 mill..Steelers try to do lower year 1 cap hit so something like 9/15/15.

Id be fine with that unless I’m getting somebody like Dean for close to that.

this seems about the range I would expect. Then of course, it only take 1 team to offer 4 years and say $60M and then thats all she wrote.  It's a good year for CB's in the draft and maybe UFA or trade. Just don't pull a colbert and draft an artie or wait until later rounds or get a Jackson that never plays at all and has injury history that won't go away. 

If they got Ramsey in a trade, how much could they rework a deal with him and the resulting cap value for 2023 ? 

still hoping they can trade dionte for Ramsey in the event Sutton is gone.  Then get Forbes at #32

 

[43M]

1 minute ago, 3rivers said:

this seems about the range I would expect. Then of course, it only take 1 team to offer 4 years and say $60M and then thats all she wrote.  It's a good year for CB's in the draft and maybe UFA or trade. Just don't pull a colbert and draft an artie or wait until later rounds or get a Jackson that never plays at all and has injury history that won't go away. 

If they got Ramsey in a trade, how much could they rework a deal with him and the resulting cap value for 2023 ? 

still hoping they can trade dionte for Ramsey in the event Sutton is gone.  Then get Forbes at #32

 

Sorry, but this is silly.

There is no chance we trade for Ramsey.

Literally, none. 

Even if we were interested, some team would outbid us.   Steelers vale the draft too much.   Only reason we traded for Minkah is because they were super high on him coming out, he was still only 22 and on a rookie contract.   

Ramsey is 28 with a huge contract and would require 1st rd value to get, and we are NOT a CB away from competing.   This is the type of trade that may have made sense back in 2017 or 2018...but 2023?   Not gonna happen, even with the new regime.

[3rivers]

is it silly if we can send dionte to the rams + draft pick? Thats the only way is has a chance of making any sense as it ships off some cap.  I'm not the biggest fan of trading for an older CB with a high cap either, unless the deal gets reworked and dionte goes.

It's a good year to need CB's with the draft being loaded

[43M]

10 hours ago, 3rivers said:

is it silly if we can send dionte to the rams + draft pick? Thats the only way is has a chance of making any sense as it ships off some cap.  I'm not the biggest fan of trading for an older CB with a high cap either, unless the deal gets reworked and dionte goes.

It's a good year to need CB's with the draft being loaded

So you want is to trade Dionte and what would likely be at least a 2nd rd pick for a 28-29 YO CB with a $25m annual salary and will probably want a new contract in the next 2 years going into his 30's.   Oh, and we also have to worry about Dionte's dead cap hit.

Not trying to be mean, but yes, its silly.   We give up massive resources for an older vet that doesn't make us immediate contenders, and take away resources to build our roster up around Kenny.

In reality, your trade scenario COULD make more sense in the 2024 season.   If Kenny and the offense show major growth in 2023 (which I honestly don't expect), we would probably be pretty legit contenders going into 24.   On top of that, both Dionte and Ramsey would be much more tradeable for both teams, since the dead cap hits for both would be much lower for both teams.   Jalen would be another year older amd his value would decrease a bit.   And next year, honestly, Ramsey could potentially be cut outright by the Rams.

Bottom line....it aint happening in 23, nor should it.    Steelers arent in win now mode, and thats a win now move.

[AFF]

11 minutes ago, 43M said:

So you want is to trade Dionte and what would likely be at least a 2nd rd pick for a 28-29 YO CB with a $25m annual salary and will probably want a new contract in the next 2 years going into his 30's.   Oh, and we also have to worry about Dionte's dead cap hit.

Not trying to be mean, but yes, its silly.   We give up massive resources for an older vet that doesn't make us immediate contenders, and take away resources to build our roster up around Kenny.

In reality, your trade scenario COULD make more sense in the 2024 season.   If Kenny and the offense show major growth in 2023 (which I honestly don't expect), we would probably be pretty legit contenders going into 24.   On top of that, both Dionte and Ramsey would be much more tradeable for both teams, since the dead cap hits for both would be much lower for both teams.   Jalen would be another year older amd his value would decrease a bit.   And next year, honestly, Ramsey could potentially be cut outright by the Rams.

Bottom line....it aint happening in 23, nor should it.    Steelers arent in win now mode, and thats a win now move.

Exactly…moving a high pick for a vet or a rookie contract player ready to get paid is the move you make after this season if they show improvement….I’ve used it before Justin Jefferson is an example.

 

[August4th]

the idea of them trading for Ramsey has me wondering what player like that could be available in 2 yrs where I hope they are in a better spot to compete for a SB. Right now the trend seems to be trade for a elite WR to take you over the top, but what if Pickens becomes that? maybe they'll be a elite pass rusher or corner available in 2 yrs... a Joey Bosa, Maxx Crosby, Darius Leonard type who will be in their late 20's by 2025 ...the dream for me would be aaron donald..but I don't see the timelimes working..I think he's gonna retire soon

[August4th]

3 minutes ago, AFF said:

Exactly…moving a high pick for a vet or a rookie contract player ready to get paid is the move you make after this season if they show improvement….I’ve used it before Justin Jefferson is an example.

 

I've seen you mention this before. at first I thought no way they move him, but minny situation might get dicey with Cousins getting older and not better at QB. The Eagles having smith did not stop them from going after AJ, so maybe the steelers would be down with adding jefferson to team up with pickens 👀

[AFF]

11 hours ago, 3rivers said:

this seems about the range I would expect. Then of course, it only take 1 team to offer 4 years and say $60M and then thats all she wrote.  It's a good year for CB's in the draft and maybe UFA or trade. Just don't pull a colbert and draft an artie or wait until later rounds or get a Jackson that never plays at all and has injury history that won't go away. 

If they got Ramsey in a trade, how much could they rework a deal with him and the resulting cap value for 2023 ? 

still hoping they can trade dionte for Ramsey in the event Sutton is gone.  Then get Forbes at #32

 

Not being rude but it seems like you get in these moods when you wanna trade players…you were saying it with Najee early in season when it was clear he wasn’t %100 and the OL was still gelling.

Now it DJ…cap hit isn’t terrible and even though he disappointed, it would be a mistake to take away weapons from Pickett….now if Austin had stayed healthy and produced etc etc then maybe.

[AFF]

9 minutes ago, August4th said:

I've seen you mention this before. at first I thought no way they move him, but minny situation might get dicey with Cousins getting older and not better at QB. The Eagles having smith did not stop them from going after AJ, so maybe the steelers would be down with adding jefferson to team up with pickens 👀

Limited cap space and Cousins is reaching mid 30s…Cook getting older as well.

They might decide to blow it up and get max value for Jefferson with towards rebuilding…it’s a dream but still unlikely to happen.

I more-so just use him as an example.

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, AFF said:

Not being rude but it seems like you get in these moods when you wanna trade players…you were saying it with Najee early in season when it was clear he wasn’t %100 and the OL was still gelling.

Now it DJ…cap hit isn’t terrible and even though he disappointed, it would be a mistake to take away weapons from Pickett….now if Austin had stayed healthy and produced etc etc then maybe.

I think trading DJ before last season would have been a good move. And there’s an out in his contract now that’s team friendly. But you can’t do it without it being a home run. Like if someone looked at the draft and decided they rather have DJ than what they can get in the 20-30 range to help their offense (yes there is a specific team and offense I’m thinking of). 

4 minutes ago, AFF said:

Limited cap space and Cousins is reaching mid 30s…Cook getting older as well.

They might decide to blow it up and get max value for Jefferson with towards rebuilding…it’s a dream but still unlikely to happen.

I more-so just use him as an example.

It’s so hard to look out ahead like that but JJ is an easy answer. Aging meh QB, limited cap, struggling defense. Interestingly too there’s been enough “blame” on JJ for his disappearing in big games, but what’s missed is no one else for Minny produced in those games. 

[warfelg]

 

[MOSteelers56]

30 minutes ago, warfelg said:

 

That's a pretty wild piece of news. It makes sense that Curry would be the ILB coach, but I didn't expect Jerry O to leave. I hope we hire a couple more coaches. 

[armsteeld]

50 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

That's a pretty wild piece of news. It makes sense that Curry would be the ILB coach, but I didn't expect Jerry O to leave. I hope we hire a couple more coaches. 

It's about time he left. Minus Shazier, I can't think of an ILB that we developed into being a quality player. We gave him tremendous athletes but the return on investment was brutally bad.