State of the Steelers

[August4th]

those are Mike brown/Bidwell ratings, Yikes

[Ward4HOF]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

I wish Fields had better than 60% accuracy.

...And less than a 3.1% INT% (vs Pickett with 1.8%)

...and a lower Sack% than 12.4% (vs Pickett with 6.6%)

...and more than 2 x 4QC / 3 x GWD in 38 GS (vs Pickett with 6 x 4QC / 7 x 3WD in 24 GS)

My point is that Fields is a heck of a lot closer to Kenny Pickett, than he is to Burrow or Jackson...and he costs a lot more than Kenny, as well, for the next couple of seasons, so why not give Pickett that same opportunity to be 'paired with people who want him not people who inherited him'.

Look, I'd love to see Fields come in here, and improve his QB Rating by 15 pts, while cutting his INT % by half, reducing his time holding on to the football, while also being able to go through his progressions...but I just am not convinced anymore than I am tat Kenny will make similar improvements, etc....                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Edited February 28 by Ward4HOF
typos

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, August4th said:

rooney and owernship looking terrible here

I made a thread about it but all the other low rated stuff come with a version of “spend more money”.

[VigilantZombie]

4 hours ago, August4th said:

rooney and owernship looking terrible here

Honestly...I don't even feel bad for them.  

[armsteeld]

Mike Tomlin is a defensive-minded football coach. It baffled me how he could allow Matt Canada to put such an ineffective game plan for other coaches & players laugh at. Now I understand why Coach Tomlin didn't fire Canada....

 

[43M]

6 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

That is coming from the Bear’s perspective, who traded up and took Fields with the 10th overall pick and have a decision to make between him and a “generational” QB prospect. From our perspective, trading a day 2 pick and upgrading from Kenny Pickett, it looks a lot different. 

And stats can be misleading. Here is one showing that Fields has been comparable to Lamar Jackson, who just won an MVP, in their last 20 games.

https://x.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1762172501692449111?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og

Its not JUST draft picks and money.   Its also the time and opportunity cost.   If you think Fields is worth it, so be it.    I really really don't, and think its a waste of a 2nd rd pick, fairly significant cap space AND time for a fairly mediocre NFL starting QB.

As far as Lamar, watching both, there isnt much comparison.   Lamar is a significantly more consistent passer, even with his own issues.

And again...two games DRASTICALLY skew Fields stats.    

If we could get him for, say....Kenny Pickett and a conditional pick....sure, because I wouldn't feel too bad if he didn't pan out and we parted ways after 2 years.   

But if we give up a 2nd rd pick and he doesn't improve much?   Thats a very tough pill to swallow, especially when alot of the writing is already on the wall.

[Ward4HOF]

13 hours ago, 43M said:

Its not JUST draft picks and money.   Its also the time and opportunity cost.   If you think Fields is worth it, so be it.    I really really don't, and think its a waste of a 2nd rd pick, fairly significant cap space AND time for a fairly mediocre NFL starting QB.

This sums it up, pretty well.  We are essentially locked in to investing $25M+, for a QB that hasn't shown much, outside of 2 games.  We can take Kenny's best 2 games to show he had a QB Rating of 103, no INTs, 66% Comp %, and averaging over 260 yds per game, but that's obviously not accurate.

I potentially can see a scenario, where Fields comes in, and becomes an above average QB for us; it's not out of the realm of possibility, but surrounding Pickett with the right coaches, and putting him in the right type of offense, may also result in a vast improvement, to where he becomes a Top-15 QB, as well. 

And yes, I get that the chances of Fields breaking out is more likely than Pickett, but is that chance really worth a 2nd Rd pick this year?  And an investment of $25M+ next season??

Honestly I don't know what the answer is, so why not just give Pickett the chance this year, and see what 2025 provides in the way of FA or the Draft.  Next year's FA doesn't look as bad as it's been made out to be, potentially...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2025/all/quarterback//

Edited February 29 by Ward4HOF
typo

[warfelg]

39 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

2025 provides in the way of FA or the Draft.  Next year's FA doesn't look as bad as it's been made out to be, potentially...

It’s not that good. Tua, Lawrence, Love will all get deals this offseason, likely Goff too. AndDak, well I rather have Fields. 

[warfelg]

And I know it’s not the same person saying it but to see the reason for no Fields to be about only two good games and for Kenny to be six good quarters is hilarious. 

[Ward4HOF]

52 minutes ago, warfelg said:

And I know it’s not the same person saying it but to see the reason for no Fields to be about only two good games and for Kenny to be six good quarters is hilarious. 

True, but he had more than 6 quarters...let's take his best 3.5 games, or 14 quarters, and you still get a QB with a QB Rating of 99.9, 66.7% Comp%, 0 INTs, 0 FL, and an AY/A of 8.89

It's 'Cherry-Picking' for sure, in both instances, but the point is, neither QB shows the propensity to be able to sustain quality QB play for more than a 1/4 of games played, and outside of those, their QB play leaves a lot to be desired.  One is going to cost us nearly $30M over the 2 years; the other, just $4.5M.

There's no doubt that Fields would infuse some excitement into our offense, but also, likely more turnovers. I'm personally not convinced that the end result would include that elusive Playoff win, or a trip to the Superbowl...

At the end of the day, will Fields provide more wins than Pickett + an All-Pro-level Free Agent or maybe 2 x Pro-Bowl-level FAs that we can 'invest' that extra $26M we would not be paying Fields in 2025??

Edited February 29 by Ward4HOF

[AFF]

Why are people so convinced that Pickett deserves more time with a competent OC but forget the crap circumstances Fields had?…multiple OCs, bad OL and little In weapons til his last year(and IIRC Moore put up his best stats of his career last year)

Pickett in roughly 24 games  has 17 career TDs…that’s putrid.

Fields in his 12 healthy games last year put up 20 TDs…he beat Pickett in half the time.

Im not saying Fields is a sure fire franchise QB…but he’s clearly better than Pickett.

[43M]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

And I know it’s not the same person saying it but to see the reason for no Fields to be about only two good games and for Kenny to be six good quarters is hilarious. 

Can you please rephrase this?    Im pretty sure youre calling me out, but I am honestly not completely sure what its saying.   I read it several times and I feel like I am having stroke or something.

It SEEMS, and correct me if I am wrong, like youre implying that I am somehow defending Kenny for only being good for 6 quarters while knocking Fields for only being good for 2 games.

If that is indeed what you are saying, that is such an embarrassingly bad take. 

Ive made it abundantly clear I never liked Kenny as an NFL QB, and straight up, I would take Fields over Pickett.     That is, however, irrelevant to the point I am making regarding the added cost of acquiring Fields.

We already foolishly used a first round pick on Pickett not even two full years ago, but at least we are only paying him scraps.    Trading for Fields requires we trade probably, AT LEAST, a 2nd round pick for a guy who, while better than Kenny, hasnt even begun to remotely prove he is anything close to a franchise QB.      Beyond that, now we are required to use at least $25m if we want to keep him beyond one year, which I could potentially live with IF we could acquire him for less than a 2nd round pick or at least a conditional 2025 2nd round pick.   But a straight up 2024 2nd round pick (which will be the likely cost...AT LEAST)  for a boom but most likely bust guy like Fields given the current status of our roster?     

Thats not smart...like, at all.

Let me just roughly sum up how I think trading for Fields would go for us....

Fields comes in and we still have a middling roster.   We may as well just get rid of Kenny at this point, and now we have to add another two QBs behind Fields.   Sure, we could keep Pickett another year, but morale will likely be horrible.    We also took away a premium pick for helping us add to our meh roster, and we spend our cap space on solid but ultimately uninspiring free agents.     Fields  immediately makes us more dynamic and makes our offense more exciting for at least half the season, but his glaring shortcomings ultimately do not take us much further than Kenny and Mason.   So while we may have 5 to 8 games where our offense explodes, we havent moved the needle much as far as being an ACTUAL championship caliber team in 2024.

Then 2025 rolls around, and we give Fields his 5th year option, paying $25 million for a guy who, again, probably didnt take us much further than Mason did in 2023.      Thats less money to add more talent, another year for a guy who doesnt have much more upside as a pure passer.    Sure, he has a strong arm and can occasionally make an amazing throw.   He also has horrible mechanics and rather weak intangibles.     But, again, we have a pretty similar year to 2024.    Maybe get lucky and go slightly further in the playoffs.

Then, we will be at a point where we have to pay Fields huge money....either via a new contract or franchise tag....for a guy who very likely will never amount to the type of QB you need to win championships,   but sign him because we are afraid of doing worse (see Daniel Jones contract....also, similar logic for why many Steeler fans want to keep Tomlin around)

Well, that or you let him walk, and we are right back where we started but we wasted a premium pick, alot of money and time on a guy who really didnt grow much in his time here.

Bottom line....If we traded for Fields, as I did with Pickett and any player we brought in I wasnt a fan of, I would give him a chance.    However, this is a desperation move....plain and simple.     I hate it, and while I do not like Kenny, I think its smarter to roll with him one more year than to than to invest THAT MUCH into a guy like Fields.

[43M]

1 hour ago, AFF said:

Why are people so convinced that Pickett deserves more time with a competent OC but forget the crap circumstances Fields had?…multiple OCs, bad OL and little In weapons til his last year(and IIRC Moore put up his best stats of his career last year)

Pickett in roughly 24 games  has 17 career TDs…that’s putrid.

Fields in his 12 healthy games last year put up 20 TDs…he beat Pickett in half the time.

Im not saying Fields is a sure fire franchise QB…but he’s clearly better than Pickett.

So, basically, your logic for wanting to trade a 2nd round pick for FIelds is because....he isnt as horrible as Kenny Pickett?

[warfelg]

16 minutes ago, 43M said:

Can you please rephrase this?    Im pretty sure youre calling me out, but I am honestly not completely sure what its saying.   I read it several times and I feel like I am having stroke or something.

I’m not calling you out.  More so you are both saying they are inconsistent but your saying take Fields best away to show it and Ward is saying focus on Kenny’s good to show it and finding the humor in that.

Edited February 29 by warfelg

[C$!]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

And I know it’s not the same person saying it but to see the reason for no Fields to be about only two good games and for Kenny to be six good quarters is hilarious. 

I don't know that it's that, but while Fields may be a flashier player, I think people who don't want Fields view it as a marginal improvement at best while they will have to commit financially. I think we all agree Fields makes the Steelers more exciting but how much better the team will be is up for debate. Couple that with acquiring Fields will also require a sizable financial commitment can make people very skittish 

I am on the fence on the issue but I get why people are not over the moon about Fields. However, with this specific example, there was that comparison to Lamar Jackson and people are pointing out that those 20-game stats are skewed.