State of the Steelers

[mwalker]

11 hours ago, rlon said:

Baker, McKinney, and Wilkins…trade DJ, draft focusing heavily on offense (OT, OC, WR) and CB. Late developmental QB and a punter.

Yes!

[bigben07MVP]

11 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

100% expect us to go after him and have a very good chance of landing him. Tomlin very much liked/likes Baker. 

If there was one guy in the league that I would say Tomlin would be interested in at a reasonable price my bet would be on him. 

FWIW Baker was set to make 10.8 mill this year and I’m sure he will be a top 3 LB on the market so we will see how reasonable his price will be.

[JustPlainNasty]

17 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

FWIW Baker was set to make 10.8 mill this year and I’m sure he will be a top 3 LB on the market so we will see how reasonable his price will be.

If we could get him around that price Id be fine. I wouldn't want to pay anything like 18 mill tho. I'd cut ARob in a heartbeat and swap contracts with Baker in a sense.

This whole keeping Arob thing is kind of absurd to me. Unless he starts playing special teams like DHB which we already have in Boykin then I have no clue whats going on.  

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

If we could get him around that price Id be fine. I wouldn't want to pay anything like 18 mill tho. I'd cut ARob in a heartbeat and swap contracts with Baker in a sense.

This whole keeping Arob thing is kind of absurd to me. Unless he starts playing special teams like DHB which we already have in Boykin then I have no clue whats going on.  

I think DJ is as good as gone and they rather have ARob as the “adult” in the room over someone else outside the org. 

[AFF]

13 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I think DJ is as good as gone and they rather have ARob as the “adult” in the room over someone else outside the org. 

That’s a terrible thought process.

(Steelers way of thinking…not you personally)

[Dcash4]

I am not sure what to make of any of the DJ news. All the articles just seem to be opinion pieces about or a "if they are offered something good" rather than knowing anything (ya know...like all the Pittsburgh Media)

On one hand, I honestly think the best thing to do is to extend DJ through Pickens rookie contract window and just forget the position outside of small dollar FA's and mid-round picks. On the other, I think you could eliminate DJ and just roll with a cost effective #2 and not know the difference. 

Smith's offense just has not produced for a #3 receiver and it's fairly iffy for the #2. Unless he is completely changing (which I don't think is why he was brought here), it's likely to stay the same. 

I'd rather have DJ and see if you can reproduce the AJ Brown/Corey Davis production or cut completely on the position and roll with the Atlanta model of Mack Hollins being WR2 with 18 catches (Bijan, Pitts, and Smith combined for 246 targets).  

An aside to pass catchers to where I think you could live sans DJ without highly drafted replacement: I know people have seemingly been down on him, but man, I think we are dropping the ball on Freiermuth next year. Kyle Pitts had 260 targets with Arthur Smith across 3 years....where you think those targets are going with the Steelers? You're telling me I could extend "WR2" this off-season at $13-14M/year...whoa baby I'd hit send on the DocuSign so fast. 

[warfelg]

14 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I am not sure what to make of any of the DJ news. All the articles just seem to be opinion pieces about or a "if they are offered something good" rather than knowing anything (ya know...like all the Pittsburgh Media)

On one hand, I honestly think the best thing to do is to extend DJ through Pickens rookie contract window and just forget the position outside of small dollar FA's and mid-round picks. On the other, I think you could eliminate DJ and just roll with a cost effective #2 and not know the difference. 

Smith's offense just has not produced for a #3 receiver and it's fairly iffy for the #2. Unless he is completely changing (which I don't think is why he was brought here), it's likely to stay the same. 

I'd rather have DJ and see if you can reproduce the AJ Brown/Corey Davis production or cut completely on the position and roll with the Atlanta model of Mack Hollins being WR2 with 18 catches (Bijan, Pitts, and Smith combined for 246 targets).  

An aside to pass catchers to where I think you could live sans DJ without highly drafted replacement: I know people have seemingly been down on him, but man, I think we are dropping the ball on Freiermuth next year. Kyle Pitts had 260 targets with Arthur Smith across 3 years....where you think those targets are going with the Steelers? You're telling me I could extend "WR2" this off-season at $13-14M/year...whoa baby I'd hit send on the DocuSign so fast. 

I agree on your torn about it.  But you can also see it this way, Pickens will be due for extension talks starting next year, so at most you are extending DJ for 1 year (GP's extension would likely have some money up front and his cap hit would be really low already as is).

As for the bold - I don't think we're so much dropping the ball as questioning the fit.  Muth is an effort blocker at best and a chip guy on most downs.  Having a guy who can block better while giving up some pass catching makes the offense more multiple.  IIRC Pitts spent more time split wide and in the slot than in line, so he effectively had Corey Davis's role in ATL.

[AFF]

They can afford to give an extension to DJ if they want…roughly an AAV of $20 mill.

However, Smiths offense prefers bigger pass catchers…so something has to give.

[Dcash4]

19 minutes ago, warfelg said:

As for the bold - I don't think we're so much dropping the ball as questioning the fit.  Muth is an effort blocker at best and a chip guy on most downs.  Having a guy who can block better while giving up some pass catching makes the offense more multiple.  IIRC Pitts spent more time split wide and in the slot than in line, so he effectively had Corey Davis's role in ATL.

Muth is never going to be a brick wall, but IMO most of his run issues (for the tight end position) were Matt Canada based. You want your tight ends to sit front row of a blocking scheme against DTs and DEs? Your gonna have a bad time. 

The end of the year Muth "improved" as a blocker, but IMO he didn't change at all -- they just changed his focus. Instead of being frontside, he would be more backside. Instead blocking down on a DE/DT he was looping to backers and safeties. Instead of pulling across to clear a free blocker as the OL go second level, they had him go next level instead. 

Putting guys in their best positions to help is an OC's job and Canada was terrible at it. I think with a heavy 2 TE set and an OC who used Pitts like you mentioned all over the place, you are going to think Muth is a better blocker, but in reality he is just better positioned. 

Don't ask Muth to take on Max Crosby as a crucial piece of a play working:

Ask him to be a wing, in the slot, or off ball and you will have a good time:

TLDR: Muth isn't a good in-line blocker, so don't ask him to be. Take the in-space blocking that he is good at as a move TE and the 80 catches for 1,000 yards and 7+ TDs and profit!

[bigben07MVP]

27 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Muth is never going to be a brick wall, but IMO most of his run issues (for the tight end position) were Matt Canada based. You want your tight ends to sit front row of a blocking scheme against DTs and DEs? Your gonna have a bad time. 

The end of the year Muth "improved" as a blocker, but IMO he didn't change at all -- they just changed his focus. Instead of being frontside, he would be more backside. Instead blocking down on a DE/DT he was looping to backers and safeties. Instead of pulling across to clear a free blocker as the OL go second level, they had him go next level instead. 

Putting guys in their best positions to help is an OC's job and Canada was terrible at it. I think with a heavy 2 TE set and an OC who used Pitts like you mentioned all over the place, you are going to think Muth is a better blocker, but in reality he is just better positioned. 

Don't ask Muth to take on Max Crosby as a crucial piece of a play working:

Ask him to be a wing, in the slot, or off ball and you will have a good time:

TLDR: Muth isn't a good in-line blocker, so don't ask him to be. Take the in-space blocking that he is good at as a move TE and the 80 catches for 1,000 yards and 7+ TDs and profit!

Spot on assessment of his blocking ability. 

My biggest gripe with ‘Muth and potentially giving him a big contract is his injury history. If you could guarantee we get 15+ games out of him each year I have no problem giving him the contract he wants.

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

My biggest gripe with ‘Muth and potentially giving him a big contract is his injury history. If you could guarantee we get 15+ games out of him each year I have no problem giving him the contract he wants.

Yeah, that's definitely the tough part -- especially because of the head injuries. The tight end C2 is just such a cheat code right now from a receiving option standpoint. $14M gets you a high end TE receiving option. That doesn't even buy you a WR2 right now. I would take advantage of that if we could. 

But I would agree your thought. I find his injury history far more concerning than his blocking. 

[warfelg]

Dulac (think whatever you want about him) said he’s heard that the Steelers price range on Mason is 2/$10MM. So in other words, he gone.

[AFF]

20 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Dulac (think whatever you want about him) said he’s heard that the Steelers price range on Mason is 2/$10MM. So in other words, he gone.

Why would he be gone?

thats less than Trubisky original deal a few years ago 

[Dcash4]

There is no more un-aesthetically pleasing QB in the game of football than Mason Rudolph. 

Remember that Tom Emanski/Fred McGriff baseball training video? Mason Rudolph is what you get when you attended that camp. 

[MOSteelers56]

5 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

There is no more un-aesthetically pleasing QB in the game of football than Mason Rudolph. 

Remember that Tom Emanski/Fred McGriff baseball training video? Mason Rudolph is what you get when you attended that camp. 

I have wanted to launch a baseball across the field and land it in a trash can ever since I was a little kid because of Tom Emanski.