VigilantZombie Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 21 hours ago, warfelg said: Define struggle. For some reason Siriani has been basically looking to replace him since day one. I feel like, not that I've dived deep into it, in his limited playing time he had a lot of drops. Dean Lowry I like. I also don't mind Kyle Allen as a #3 QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said: I never said he wouldn't be an asset. Heck, Kirk Cousins would've been an asset, but how many wanted to trade for him, and pay him $30+M, so on and so forth. That's not what my concern is. Completely different situations, but okay. 1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said: So, your contention is, we are an Aiyuk away from a SB win? Stop being obtuse. Not going to waste my time entertaining pointless strawmen arguments. 1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said: We trade our 1st for Aiyuk, and that's the best plan moving forward? I don't agree; not when we are staring at Moore as our LT, and no starter worthy OC on our roster, and no 1st Rd draft pick, $25M AAV added to our Cap. Youre already moving goalposts. First your argument was because he was supposedly too old. Now its because we have other holes. WR is one of our biggest needs....a potential FIRST ROUND need. This is an opportunity to get a proven player at the position. Yes, we have to pay more for the PROVEN player, as opposed to drafting a guy who may not amount to anything. Im not knocking you for not wanting to trade for him, nor am I strongly advocating that we do so. But there is plenty of logic for trading for a player like him. Despite what you or I think, the Steelers are in win now mode. They kind of have to be. 2 or 3 more seasons of similar results will like be the end for most of this front office and coaching staff. 1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said: At this point in time, as our roster is currently constructed, I feel it would be a mistake to trade our 1st Rd pick for Brandon Aiyuk, when we could get a, what, 60%- 75% solution for a lot less, and have him under a rookie contract for the next 4-5 years? Im okay with your logic EXCEPT the bolded, which has already been covered. 100% proven quality who can immediately help vs completely unproven player. 1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said: It's obvious, I am in the minority here, but if you think, for a second, I have not considered all the benefits Aiyuk would bring, and how good of a fit he would be, then you are kidding yourself, but he's not the only answer available. Never said he is the only answer, but he is the most proven and best fits what we need....hence the premium you have to pay to get a player like that. Again...not saying you are wrong for not wanting to trade for him, but there are numerous legit reasons for wanting to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 43M said: Youre already moving goalposts. First your argument was because he was supposedly too old. Now its because we have other holes. Nice try...this was my first point in the debate, so how about before making false accusations, you actually read, eh? "Good. That would be a waste of a 1st Rd pick. Not saying he isn't worth one; I'm saying we can likely get a similar projected talent in the 2nd/3rd Rd this year, with as deep as this class is. Especially if we trade down with Detroit--their 1.29 + 3.73 for our 1.20 + 6.195--then make another trade with two of our, now, 3 x 3rds, up into the 2nd, giving us 2 x 2nds. We could easily get a top 3 OC, a top 10 WR, and a RT. All should be day one starters with 3 picks in the top 51, no??" 13 minutes ago, 43M said: Again...not saying you are wrong for not wanting to trade for him, but there are numerous legit reasons for wanting to do so. I never said there weren't legit reasons to trade for him...but there are legit reasons for NOT wanting to trade for him, which I spread out over a couple of posts, so again, go back and read my posts before making baseless accusations... So, let me get this straight, there can be "numerous legit reasons" to trade for him, but I'm not allowed to list the numerous legit reasons we shouldn't? Great way to argue, there 43M...you get to site every benefit, but I can only site one negative argument, because if I do, I'm 'moving goal posts', yeah right... EDIT: Okay, I'll argue your way...there are 'numerous reasons' NOT to trade for him, is that now fair??? Edited March 26 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 @Ward4HOF I’m just playing devils advocate at this point, but what if we do use our 1st to improve the o-line, use a day 2 pick on a WR, and he DOESN’T pan out? Or he isn’t “60-70%” of Brandon Aiyuk right away? We just used a 4th on Calvin Austin two years ago and what do we have to show for it? I am big on guys like Pearsall, Legette, Wilson etc. but these guys are far from guaranteed to be able to keep defenses from rolling a safety over top of Pickens on every single play, especially from Day 1. Idc if we have the best O-Line in the league, rolling into the season with Russ/Fields at QB, Pickens at WR, and a combo of unproven rookie/Calvin Austin/Van Jefferson is a scary proposition. I would rather guarantee we have two proven pass catching options who are dangerous at all 3 levels, will keep defenses honest, and allow us to properly evaluate Russ and Fields than take JPJ or an OT at 20. But trust me…I get your hesitation. The o-line has 1.5 glaring holes on it right now and there’s not a ton of options out there. But I trust that Kahn would have a plan. And again I just personally think you are underestimating just how good Aiyuk is and what he would bring to the offense. I also do not think it’s a guarantee it will take a 1st to land Aiyuk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, VigilantZombie said: I feel like, not that I've dived deep into it, in his limited playing time he had a lot of drops. Dean Lowry I like. I also don't mind Kyle Allen as a #3 QB https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/quez-watkins-player-stats?category=receiving&seasonType=reg 6 career drops in 4 years. For reference Diontae has 27 in the same time span. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 12 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Nice try...this was my first point in the debate, so how about before making false accusations, you actually read, eh? Says the guy who cant make an argument without constantly resorting to using strawmen. 12 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: "Good. That would be a waste of a 1st Rd pick. Not saying he isn't worth one; I'm saying we can likely get a similar projected talent in the 2nd/3rd Rd this year, with as deep as this class is. Especially if we trade down with Detroit--their 1.29 + 3.73 for our 1.20 + 6.195--then make another trade with two of our, now, 3 x 3rds, up into the 2nd, giving us 2 x 2nds. We could easily get a top 3 OC, a top 10 WR, and a RT. All should be day one starters with 3 picks in the top 51, no??" I was responding to what you said to ME. Not the response you gave 5 or so pages ago to a completely different poster. 12 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: I never said there weren't legit reasons to trade for him...but there are legit reasons for NOT wanting to trade for him, which I spread out over a couple of posts, so again, go back and read my posts before making baseless accusations... And I even admitted those reasons are valid....and I actually said it RIGHT TO YOU. Unlike you, I am not assuming you read something I said to a completely different person multiple pages earlier. Pethaps its you who should try reading. 12 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: So, let me get this straight, there can be "numerous legit reasons" to trade for him, but I'm not allowed to list the numerous legit reasons we shouldn't? Great way to argue, there 43M...you get to site every benefit, but I can only site one negative argument, because if I do, I'm 'moving goal posts', yeah right... EDIT: Okay, I'll argue your way...there are 'numerous reasons' NOT to trade for him, is that now fair??? Another laughable strawman from you. Why am I not surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: I’m just playing devils advocate at this point, but what if we do use our 1st to improve the o-line, use a day 2 pick on a WR, and he DOESN’T pan out? Or he isn’t “60-70%” of Brandon Aiyuk right away? We just used a 4th on Calvin Austin two years ago and what do we have to show for it? Ok...and what happens if Aiyuk tears his Achilles Week 1?? Or less drastic, gets a nagging hamstring injury, that keeps him from being 100%? We can play 'if' all day long. Am I not allowed to have a dissenting viewpoint, especially when I site several reasons, oh, I'm sorry, I meant 'move goalposts'?? I have already gone on record stating that I can see the appeal, and I get that he'd be helpful, I'm just saying, I personally, do not think it's the best use of assets. We get to play 1 OC, 2 OTs, and upwards for 4 WR (not likely in this offense, true) but my point is, there are other helpful WRs out there...Boyd would cost less than half as much, with no spending of a draft pick, and would easily be a 60% solution. There are other ways to figure this out. This is my last point on this, because you, nor Warfelg, nor 43M, nor AFF, etc., is going to change my mind, and get me to believe that I haven't considered all the aspects of it--I have, but now it's just getting to the point of 43M trying to insult me to make his point, and that's when I draw the line, so go ahead and say I'm 'moving goalposts', and not considering the benefits, or that I don't know how good Aiyuk is, or that 26 isn't that old, or that Khan can figure out a workaround, and a 1st Rd pick and $25M is the best way for us to move forward, for a #2 WR, or all the other 'numerous reasons' why it's a great idea. I'll tell you what, get him to sign for under $20M AAV, and a day 2 pick, and I wouldn't be as critical of the transaction, but a 1.20 + $25M AAV (good luck signing him for less than his teammate, Deebo, who's getting $23.85M AAV with $41M guaranteed). Why is that so hard to believe that a Steelers' fan wouldn't think that is the best use of our assets?? So, again, I'm done. you guys have it all figured out. Great. Good on you. I can only state my position so many times, and when I start getting ridiculed, or accused of things I haven't done, like 'moving goalposts', because I have 'numerous reasons' for not wanting him to sign, or not understanding how good Aiyuk is, then I'm done. It's no longer a debate...It's a bunch of guys trying to get me to change my mind, because, what...I'm wrong? Great...then go along your day, saying Ward4HOF is wrong, and move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 43M said: Says the guy who cant make an argument without constantly resorting to using strawmen. I was responding to what you said to ME. Not the response you gave 5 or so pages ago to a completely different poster. And I even admitted those reasons are valid....and I actually said it RIGHT TO YOU. Unlike you, I am not assuming you read something I said to a completely different person multiple pages earlier. Pethaps its you who should try reading. Another laughable strawman from you. Why am I not surprised? Read above, 43M... You came into the debate 3 pages later...I'm sorry you can't bother yourself to read what I've said on this point previously.... Edited March 26 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1772678045276708920?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA LOL. Kraft: “this is bad, I’ll fix it”. Art: “Performance art!” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 24 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Ok...and what happens if Aiyuk tears his Achilles Week 1?? 🤦 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said: We just used a 4th on Calvin Austin two years ago and what do we have to show for it? We also used a 2nd in that same draft, on Pickens, who showed out excellently. My point is, your using 'what ifs' and a so far, failed LATE 4th Rd draft pick, to argue that we should trade for Aiyuk, when in the same draft, the scenario I am advocating, using a 2nd/3rd Rd pick, in a much deeper WR draft class, has been proven in the past, on the Steelers, to be a solid addition to our need for a 2nd starting WR. Or, there are still a couple of FAs out there, that would be able to come in and fill the role as a #2 WR. There are lots of other WRs, on other teams, that we could trade for, for much less draft capital, and Cap space, that can come in as a #2 WR 49 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: 🤦 I figured this would be your response, but how is your 'what if' any different, than the possibility, that Aiyuk comes in here, and runs into any 'numerous' issues, to where he doesn't fulfill everybody's hopes and dreams, simply, because he's had one stellar year at WR, and couple of other decent years. I stated I was done arguing the point, but using a failed 33rd pick in the 4th Rd to make your point, yet at the same time, ignoring that Pickens, in that same draft, in a similar scenario I am talking about, (draft 2nd Rd), seems a bit disingenuous. And lastly, do we really need another Twitter/X diva WR to come in here spouting emojis in response to his GM saying that they are working with him to extend him?? I know, I know, another 'moving of the goalposts', but it's really not...it's just yet, another reason to have pause, and has happened SINCE we started debating the point. I will say, at least you, warfelg, vigilant zombie, and others, are able to debate by reading more than just my singular responses to each of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, skywlker32 said: I think the biggest issue with trading a 1st for Aiyuk is that OL is a bigger need than WR. We don't NEED to draft a no.1 WR, we need to get a solid no.2, which can be done later. Solidifying OL with 1st/2nd (or more FA) is much more attractive to me. I'm not against it happening necessarily, but it's not my preferred path. That’s my issue too. We don’t have a C on the roster. I’d love to have Aiyuk, but I’d love it a whole lot more if we had a C. If we signed Connor Williams, I’d be all over bringing in a WR. I’d also rather trade a 1st for a proven guy over trading up for Odunze. I think we’ve got too many needs to swing such a huge trade up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 https://x.com/alex_kozora/status/1772655494802313361?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 just signed C.Patterson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1772715954352402524?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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