State of the Steelers

[bigben07MVP]

34 minutes ago, warfelg said:

The most obvious one to me at this point is to try to sign Williams, having Herbig start the season at C.  That allows Williams not to have to rush back, and it opens up a pick for us.  My next two wouldn't be super obvious but signing Maddox and Simmons would really put that secondary in a great spot.  Eilliot can play more box S and small MOF zones where Simmons and Fitzpatrick can make deep balls a no-fly-zone.  Maddox, while injury prone, offers that slot ability we need.  Then my last one is to sign Teair Tart.  I don't see him as someone that takes DL off the board, but it doesn't force your hand in taking DL in the top 4 picks. 

If we went into the draft thinking that those could be post-draft FA signings, then it allows you to be more free.  Maybe you can move back from 20 to 27 in the first, have JPJ fall to there, and you pick him up at 27, cross Williams off the board.  Because you had the plan with Williams in the back pocket you didn't push yourself to take C at 20 and let the value of the trade back to 27 motivate you.  Maybe you take one of the 3rd round OT's in this class with bringing in a FA or just starting with the current setup and let the rookie work their way into the lineup.  I just really feel a plan like that just makes this draft make more sense even without knowing who will be on the board or what trades will be out there to be had.

Im 100% with you on all this. Plugging that center position opens the draft up to us in so many ways. Even makes a trade for Aiyuk or a trade up for Nabers/Odunze so much more palatable.

I can’t shake this feeling that Kahn has some sort of under the table hand shake agreement with Connor Williams agent to sign him post June 1 so long as his recovery is still on track. 

I doubt Simmons is on their radar much at all. I think they have made it very clear they do not want to invest heavy capital in the safety position outside of Minkah, because you really just need a solid compliment next to him.

Tart is a really good player but apparently is a complete head case but that has not stopped them before. 

Maddox I would be on board with but would prefer to address that position in the draft. I’m a huge fan of Sainristil, Jarrion Jones, or Javon Bullard in rounds 3 or 4.

[MOSteelers56]

30 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Heard this idea on a pod recently but they could just end up taking Johnny Wilson late day 2/early day 3 and have him be the Mack Hollins mold WR2. 

Roman Wilson? 

[bigben07MVP]

11 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Roman Wilson? 

No, Johnny Wilson. I’m saying just a massive boundary receivers whose main job is to block and run deep vertical shots. 
 

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Kind of an appropriate tweet with this conversation:

https://x.com/Steelersdepot/status/1775509132277338489?s=20

Personally, as good as Pickens is he's yet to produce consistently enough to really count as a WR1.  I really feel both Pickens and DJ were "SuperWR2's" and they both benefitted from it.  Watkins, Jefferson, Austin are all more WR3/4 types to me than actual WR2's.

I am more prepped for a trade down in RD1 or 2 than anything else.  We still have a lot of needs, not just starting but also future.  On top of that we're 3 weeks from the draft and there's also still so much available talent out there.

IMO there might be some feeling of let the draft fall, then go into post-draft FA to stopgap the spots you didn't feel or feel like you have a guy that needs some development.

Just looking at some top available talent areas and what I'm thinking:

S - Depth here is lacking - Justin Simmons, Quandre Diggs

CB - Depth here is lacking, CB3 non-existent, CB2 iffy - Stephon Gilmore, Steven Nelson (not likely), Xavien Howard, Adoree' Jackson, Avonte Maddox (when healthy fixes out CB3 issue), Patrick Peterson (I think this is very likely), Levi Wallace (I feel he got too much unnecessary hate), Fabian Moreau, Daryl Worley, Ahkello Witherspoon

OL - Needing at least 1 starter and 1 future guy - Connor Williams (this can make sense if Herbig is your place holder at C), Makhi Becton (Still draft a RT but Becton can start the year for you there), Andre Dillard (I liked him last year and he's a decent stop gap option), Donovan Smith (holding machine but stopgap upside), Charles Leno (repeat of others)

DL - Needs depth and a future - Teair Tart, Calais Campbell (could be a one year stop gap with a later round developmental player), Chris Wormley

WR - Still really lacking here - Tyler Boyd (reports are that he had an offer, asked for more, steelers balked and that's why he's unsigned), Michael Gallup (injuries are a concern), Marquez Valdes-Scantling (Can separate and is big).

I'm also going to throw a OL curveball out there.  I wouldn't mind seeing us nab Dalton Risner at a reasonable rate right now because he was really good at G the last two years, is underappreciated, and you can slide Daniels to C.  I know this isn't an all star list above of guys who suddenly make us SB contending but it's a lot of guys that I look at and think that if we needed to play them for the short term while someone developed (Peterson for Porter) or I needed them to provide competition and spot snaps for a high pick I would feel very comfortable with that.

The most obvious one to me at this point is to try to sign Williams, having Herbig start the season at C.  That allows Williams not to have to rush back, and it opens up a pick for us.  My next two wouldn't be super obvious but signing Maddox and Simmons would really put that secondary in a great spot.  Eilliot can play more box S and small MOF zones where Simmons and Fitzpatrick can make deep balls a no-fly-zone.  Maddox, while injury prone, offers that slot ability we need.  Then my last one is to sign Teair Tart.  I don't see him as someone that takes DL off the board, but it doesn't force your hand in taking DL in the top 4 picks. 

If we went into the draft thinking that those could be post-draft FA signings, then it allows you to be more free.  Maybe you can move back from 20 to 27 in the first, have JPJ fall to there, and you pick him up at 27, cross Williams off the board.  Because you had the plan with Williams in the back pocket you didn't push yourself to take C at 20 and let the value of the trade back to 27 motivate you.  Maybe you take one of the 3rd round OT's in this class with bringing in a FA or just starting with the current setup and let the rookie work their way into the lineup.  I just really feel a plan like that just makes this draft make more sense even without knowing who will be on the board or what trades will be out there to be had.

Great post! I really like the OL strategy. FWIW: Bottom 5 WR group is being generous. Outside the potential of Pickens and Austin, we have as close to nothing as you can get. Bottom 3 at least. 

[warfelg]

26 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Im 100% with you on all this. Plugging that center position opens the draft up to us in so many ways. Even makes a trade for Aiyuk or a trade up for Nabers/Odunze so much more palatable.

I can’t shake this feeling that Kahn has some sort of under the table hand shake agreement with Connor Williams agent to sign him post June 1 so long as his recovery is still on track. 

I doubt Simmons is on their radar much at all. I think they have made it very clear they do not want to invest heavy capital in the safety position outside of Minkah, because you really just need a solid compliment next to him.

Tart is a really good player but apparently is a complete head case but that has not stopped them before. 

Maddox I would be on board with but would prefer to address that position in the draft. I’m a huge fan of Sainristil, Jarrion Jones, or Javon Bullard in rounds 3 or 4.

It just free's up so much more mobility.

I would be more shocked by that move with Williams than him signing a 1 year deal part way into the season when the starting C for a contending team goes down (or maybe even Philly).

I doubt the Simmons thing to but let me dream.

Tart is a mixed bag.  It seems some of his red flags goes back to him needing to sign the 2nd round tender last year over anything else.  I think the bigger thing is he's a hot and cold guy in terms of sometimes he holds blocks, sometimes he shoots gaps, and as a 1/0T you hope for just getting one of those consistently.

I prefer that too, but to me Maddox is more of a "if we signed him we wouldn't need to" type move.  So if a run on NCB type players starts to happen, then you can see what comes to you rather than panic and feel the need to move up.

[bigben07MVP]

Diggs + 2024 6th + 2025 5th to Texans for a 2025 2nd

Man, I know Diggs is 4 years older than Aiyuk…but there’s your somewhat framework for what a trade could look like.

Maybe a 2025 2nd and a 2024 6th could get it done for Aiyuk?

[MOSteelers56]

49 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

No, Johnny Wilson. I’m saying just a massive boundary receivers whose main job is to block and run deep vertical shots. 
 

I've never heard of him. Looks like I have something to do during work now haha

[bigben07MVP]

3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I've never heard of him. Looks like I have something to do during work now haha

He’s a very fun prospect to watch. 6ft 7 but does not move like it. 

He was banged up a lot last year, his 2022 tape is probably a little more impressive. 

[MOSteelers56]

3 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

He’s a very fun prospect to watch. 6ft 7 but does not move like it. 

He was banged up a lot last year, his 2022 tape is probably a little more impressive. 

Geez, I didn't realize FSU was fielding a team of giants

[Chieferific]

4 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I've never heard of him. Looks like I have something to do during work now haha

A Day 2 guy. He's HUGE. 6'6" 230+lbs Huge. Ran a 4.52 at the combine. No doubt @bigben07MVP will have more details about him but I've read he will struggle on the outside and will need to be in the Slot or position change to TE.  

[warfelg]

49 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Diggs + 2024 6th + 2025 5th to Texans for a 2025 2nd

Man, I know Diggs is 4 years older than Aiyuk…but there’s your somewhat framework for what a trade could look like.

Maybe a 2025 2nd and a 2024 6th could get it done for Aiyuk?

It should.  But Lynch is playing hardball and no one will end up dealing with him.  They'll just wait for the offseason when Aiyuk can get a bigger contract than SF can afford.

[AFF]

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

It should.  But Lynch is playing hardball and no one will end up dealing with him.  They'll just wait for the offseason when Aiyuk can get a bigger contract than SF can afford.

The Steelers will be making a big move for a WR either this year or next offseson…at least in my opinion.

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

No, Johnny Wilson. I’m saying just a massive boundary receivers whose main job is to block and run deep vertical shots. 
 

I thought that was George Pickens ( minus the blocking)

[jebrick]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

He’s a very fun prospect to watch. 6ft 7 but does not move like it. 

He was banged up a lot last year, his 2022 tape is probably a little more impressive. 

For some big WR later in the draft, look up the Janke twins from North Dakoda St.  

[Dcash4]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

If we went into the draft thinking that those could be post-draft FA signings, then it allows you to be more free.

IMO, it's just asking for things to go too perfectly. You can't control other teams and alls it takes is one of them to make a move before you or better than you and the plans gone with nothing to back it because it's way too late in the process. 

It's a fine thought in theory, but in practice I think it's trying to thread a needle and hoping it all works out in your benefit (which, is ultimately what I think happened at center in the first place). 

Post-draft free agency is best used to avoid comp pick math (Ravens, this isn't an issue for us) or supplementing your position groups (like we did last year with Alexander). Trying to land your starter post draft is just asking for trouble. We ultimately did this last year in filling NCB and that didn't end up so well. 

IMO you should enter the draft feeling decent about the season starting tomorrow and being reasonably covered. As of now we don't have a center or a nickel corner, and are playing our future LT on the wrong side and are worse in the wide receiver room than when the new season starter. 

I just don't think we have the luxury of being cute at this time.