bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 21 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: No, but this is largely my issue with their off-season to date. They created holes they didn't fill and between the starting vacancies WR feels more luxury with Smith than need. Outside of DJ, what hole did they “create”? Patrick Peterson, Mason Cole, Allen Robinson, Keanu Neal, Pressley Harvin, and Chuks were not helping us win any games next season… And even with DJ, a need was filled with his departure, so can you even say trading him created a hole? Also - all of those guys we let go (other than Chuks) are still out there if we want them… The last point I’ll make is we saw 3 significant signings after the draft last year (Sullivan, Kwon Alexander, Golden). Could even add Desmond King even though that didn’t work out. They will undoubtedly make several signings after the draft again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 hours ago, warfelg said: First off being a gunner is a skill set. He struggles to beat man press, how’s he going to beat two people pressing him? His speed is straight line rather than agility so using that to get downfield isn’t likely. He’s not likely to learn this fast how to break down after running full speed to the ball carrier and make that tackle. Being a gunner takes a real skill set and for someone who doesn’t have a history in college or pro’s they likely won’t transition now. Boykin as least did it some in college then played for one of the best ST coaches out there. I mean - legit Claypool is a guy who should have learned to be a gunner because he’s just good enough on offense to offer something, but has the build to be a great gunner. I get that but 6' 190lbs and a 4.35 guy that isn't in the top 3 of the depth chart is gonna play STs. Maybe not a Gunner (which negates being Boykin's replacement) but in some fashion. He's young and with some coaching and if he's hungry enough, some of those Press issues could be coached up. But agreed and while I'm not familiar with a lot of the guys further down the depth chart, it appears a more immediate Gunner is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Outside of DJ, what hole did they “create”? Patrick Peterson, Mason Cole, Allen Robinson, Keanu Neal, Pressley Harvin, and Chuks were not helping us win any games next season… And even with DJ, a need was filled with his departure, so can you even say trading him created a hole? Also - all of those guys we let go (other than Chuks) are still out there if we want them… The last point I’ll make is we saw 3 significant signings after the draft last year (Sullivan, Kwon Alexander, Golden). Could even add Desmond King even though that didn’t work out. They will undoubtedly make several signings after the draft again. Sullivan wasn’t good, golden was cheap depth and Alexander was a good signing but was meant to be depth too. @Dcash4 is saying you simply swapped needs from contract year DJ to contract year Jackson. Hes saying they have about about 4 massive holes(WR/C/RT/slot DB) and 4 pretty immediate ones( probably needing starters at spots next year at latest) in DL x 2/outisde CB/possibly ILB….and they weren’t addressed for the most part. Will they sign a vet or 2 come Summer?….yes…will it be enough? We’ll see. Edited April 10 by AFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 12 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Also - all of those guys we let go (other than Chuks) are still out there if we want them… This is what gets me. So many of those guys are available. I could see if we saw Cole, Robinson, Golden, etc were signing elsewhere really quick I’d be more annoyed. The fact they are still out there makes me content because it’s players that clearly think more of themselves or teams just don’t feel are worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 10 minutes ago, Chieferific said: I get that but 6' 190lbs and a 4.35 guy that isn't in the top 3 of the depth chart is gonna play STs. Maybe not a Gunner (which negates being Boykin's replacement) but in some fashion. He's young and with some coaching and if he's hungry enough, some of those Press issues could be coached up. But agreed and while I'm not familiar with a lot of the guys further down the depth chart, it appears a more immediate Gunner is needed. I mean - that’s a very simplistic way of saying that about size and speed. Dez Fitzpatrick, Marquez Callaway, Luq Barcoo, Kalon Barnes are more likely to be the top 4 gunners in camp. And two of them will likely be cut. My guess is Watkins and Austin will be a camp competition, as well as Jefferson and Mims. One from each of those battles will be cut. So IMO ST has a smaller impact than what they can bring to the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 9 minutes ago, AFF said: Sullivan wasn’t good, golden was cheap depth and Alexander was a good signing but was meant to be depth too. @Dcash4 is saying you simply swapped needs from contract year DJ to contract year Jackson. Hes saying they have about about 4 massive holes(WR/C/RT/slot DB) and 4 pretty immediate ones( probably needing starters at spots next year at latest) in DL x 2/outisde CB/possibly ILB….and they weren’t addressed for the most part. Will they sign a vet or 2 come Summer?….yes…will it be enough? We’ll see. Ok… and I am pushing back that they “created” any holes. Letting go of a handful of guys who were negative players who couldn’t even catch on elsewhere is something I’m completely ok with. My argument is there was already a lot of holes on the roster heading into the offseason, we just trimmed the fat. Now if you want to disagree with their lack of activity filling those holes…sure. Mitch Morse is the one guy I wish they didn’t let get away. But all of the top Centers and WRs got contracts that were too rich, and the CB and OT free agent class was really underwhelming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Ok… and I am pushing back that they “created” any holes. Letting go of a handful of guys who were negative players who couldn’t even catch on elsewhere is something I’m completely ok with. My argument is there was already a lot of holes on the roster heading into the offseason, we just trimmed the fat. Now if you want to disagree with their lack of activity filling those holes…sure. Mitch Morse is the one guy I wish they didn’t let get away. But all of the top Centers and WRs got contracts that were too rich, and the CB and OT free agent class was really underwhelming. I’m not saying any of the guys they let go were of great importance(save for DJ)…my point is they haven’t addressed them. I’m not saying address them all in FA…just make a dent with 1 or 2 more Queen like signings….Hell Kendall Fuller would’ve been fine as the CB2 as he got 2/$15, just using an example. Another younger piece that coulda helped the team for multiple Years woulda been my preferred route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, AFF said: I’m not saying any of the guys they let go were of great importance(save for DJ)…my point is they haven’t addressed them. I’m not saying address them all in FA…just make a dent with 1 or 2 more Queen like signings….Hell Kendall Fuller would’ve been fine as the CB2 as he got 2/$15, just using an example. Another younger piece that coulda helped the team for multiple Years woulda been my preferred route. Why would they have signed Fuller when they traded for Jackson? They clearly see him as CB2 at least for this season. And again, if you want to argue they should have signed players that they didn’t that’s fine. But to say they “created” holes just isn’t true imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, bigben07MVP said: I am pushing back that they “created” any holes They cut Chuks -- the only player on the roster that could have allowed Jones to move to his position of left tackle. They cut Cole -- apparently making a guy with 47 snaps at center over the last 8 years our next man up They cut Peterson -- the only member on this team with nickel snaps They traded DJ and cut Allen Robinson -- leaving Austin as the next best on the team I'm sorry if I missed the signings, but did we fill any of those vacancies at this point? I don't care in anyway what the reasons are. They created holes they have yet to fill. They did a crap job of getting value back for DJ, but I am cool with all of these guys moving on. What I am not cool with is that none of them found adequate replacements. We did not get better in any of these spots and you can make a pretty good argument that we got worse. 28 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: (Sullivan, Kwon Alexander, Golden) Sullivan is the only one that filled a void. Alexander was signed after netting 2 starters in the first wave of FA. OLB was already set with Watt and Highsmith and they drafted Herbig. Post free agency is great at two things: 1) avoiding comp pick changes and 2) depth pieces 11 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Now if you want to disagree with their lack of activity filling those holes…sure So you are just arguing semantics. I say holes, you say lack of activity. It's the same thing. This roster has places they should have but did not address leading into the draft. Now we are looking at drafting for need and not talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: They cut Chuks -- the only player on the roster that could have allowed Jones to move to his position of left tackle. They cut Cole -- apparently making a guy with 47 snaps at center over the last 8 years our next man up They cut Peterson -- the only member on this team with nickel snaps They traded DJ and cut Allen Robinson -- leaving Austin as the next best on the team I'm sorry if I missed the signings, but did we fill any of those vacancies at this point? I don't care in anyway what the reasons are. They created holes they have yet to fill. They did a crap job of getting value back for DJ, but I am cool with all of these guys moving on. What I am not cool with is that none of them found adequate replacements. We did not get better in any of these spots and you can make a pretty good argument that we got worse. Sullivan is the only one that filled a void. Alexander was signed after netting 2 starters in the first wave of FA. OLB was already set with Watt and Highsmith and they drafted Herbig. Post free agency is great at two things: 1) avoiding comp pick changes and 2) depth pieces So you are just arguing semantics. I say holes, you say lack of activity. It's the same thing. This roster has places they should have but did not address leading into the draft. Now we are looking at drafting for need and not talent. Chuks wasn’t part of the future plans here. They could have started Chuks at RT and moved Jones to the left side at ANY point last year and they didn’t. And even with that caveat, this is the only one I will even slightly agree with you on… Cole, Peterson, and Robinson are all STILL available to bring back! 😂 No one wants those guys. Do YOU want any of those players getting significant playing time next year? No NFL team seems to want to. And if they completely whiff on Center in the draft, then sign Cole! Or Brian Allen! Like these guys who you are fighting for are bottom of the barrel guys and there’s still plenty of better options out there than them. I would rather sign DJ Chark or Michael Gallup than bring Allen Robinson back. I would rather sign Adoree Jackson, Gilmore, Xavien Howard than bring Peterson back. And I would rather have Mekhi Becton or Donovan Smith than Chuks. And I wouldn’t agree that I’m arguing semantics. You claim they created holes, I am saying that you cannot create a hole by letting go of a player that has no business seeing the field for us. Those holes were already there. Edited April 10 by bigben07MVP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlon Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Do YOU want any of those players getting significant playing time next year?^^^^^^^^^^^ Nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 You still have to fill the hole Created by getting rid of the trash…they haven’t. No one…no one is saying Cole was good or should’ve never been cut. Its simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 minutes ago, AFF said: No one…no one is saying Cole was good or should’ve never been cut. That’s what it seems like is being argued though. We are still 2 weeks away from the draft. Can we give Kahn a chance? There are still several avenues to improve the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: That’s what it seems like is being argued though. We are still 2 weeks away from the draft. Can we give Kahn a chance? There are still several avenues to improve the team. No one has said that. Me and @Dcash4 have simply stated that pretty much nothing has been done to replace them…of course you can’t fill every hole in FA…but you can’t fill every hole in the draft too. Plus counting on June 1 type vet cuts for starting roles(probably multiple) is incredibly stupid…just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 minutes ago, AFF said: No one has said that. Me and @Dcash4 have simply stated that pretty much nothing has been done to replace them…of course you can’t fill every hole in FA…but you can’t fill every hole in the draft too. Plus counting on June 1 type vet cuts for starting roles(probably multiple) is incredibly stupid…just my opinion. “We haven’t done enough to fill the holes on this team YET” is different than “We unnecessarily created a bunch of holes for ourselves and haven’t done anything to fill them.” And I would argue that’s more than just semantics. Fair? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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