2022 GDT Da Steelers 2-4 Visit the Miami Dolphins 3-3

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, August4th said:

green going down as one of the worse picks in the colbert era. He's ending up as a player who should of been drafted as a 6th RD project and not a 3rd RD guy we put in the starting line in yr 1...what a disaster..feel bad for the kid..maybe he can get saved somewhere else 

What's funny was I liked him, as a 5th round pick (maybe 4th) because he needed work but I thought he has interior flexibility.  Never thought he was a day one starter.  To me Tomlin's offseason comments about him were telling in a way.  Saying he was forced into a spot when he wasn't ready.  Makes me think that Tomlin wasn't excited about this pick and felt that his hand was forced on this option.

Our drafting philosophy the last 10-ish years have left a lot to desire.  We were picking pet projects, we were picking for needs, we weren't worried about depth.  We tried too much to take high ceiling guys and not the high floor guys who can just do something.

[Dcash4]

Rewatching this game:

- I am starting to think Claypool is a double agent (/s). He seems to actually seek out other receiver on crossing routes. Kozora pointed this out in that post about Chase learning the slot, but Pickens ran a couple of crossers seamlessly with DJ. An odd thing for us to be continually bad at...

- ...and we had a chance to be bad at it a lot. Vertical rails w/ mid-field crossers were Canada's go to spam play this week. Makes sense, going against a heavy man team....but there ARE other concepts that beat man too. He really only seems to have one idea a week. 

- Canada's motion offense isn't doing anything. It rarely moves people to advantageous looks. I am not 100% sure of the culprit here; could be lack of success of those plays, could be lack of creativity with it, could be that no one is scared of us running anyway...but they don't really work the way they need to. Also needs a check system when we have a bad look/personnel match. Had an occurrence where we had Gunner (TELL!) coming from the left in trips in motion to the TE side. Theory here is that it pulls the man corner across the formation with him and leaves a gap on the backside of the run for Warren. Problem: they are not scared of you passing with Gunner on the field so they drop a S in the slot and leave a CB on the backside on a TE. The motion pushes the S to LB and the CB picks up man against the newly placed WR on the right. Warren is tackled by....you guessed it....the S that was right in the running lane. It was actually a 5 vs 3 blocking scheme. Not great. 

- Speaking of tells, I made a post about our personnel with Gentry and Watt being a high, really high percentage run. Gentry on the field in passing situations: really high percentage he is in to block. Not a threat. Hello extra guys in coverage!

- Sticking with Canada, or maybe Pickett being a rookie... this team desperately needs Pro-Style RPO add on to run calls. Not the sit in gun with the ball in the gut of the RB college style we see so much. The "two-plays" at the snap type where when Kenny alerts to too many men in the box (mainly, because we tell the team we are running with personnel/situation) he can take the snap and fire a jailbreak slant to the outside, doesn't even have to make a call. This is really common and helps be a tendency breaker. Used to do it a ton with Ben (though, he really favore the P part of RPO). Countless times early in downs we are under center against 8 in the box with off-man coverage. Just sling it and let your guy run. It's free yards and lightens the load after you gash them. 

- If you were low on Kenny, this was the game for you! He checked every box in every scouting reports "negatives". Missed a lot of opportunity with happy feet in a pocket that wasn't collapsing.  Lead to him dropping eyes on 3 occasions that I counted on key downs.  A big one came on the scramble that they caught Dan Moore on a hold for on a key third down. He bails on a really well protected pocket and has Chase opening up on the rub for what likely is a TD based on the way the safeties are playing. It's the difference of 17-16 lead vs 3rd and 16. Tough one. His timing is also out of whack. Needs to play with more urgency. Had a half roll where DJ is the only target -- and he is open. Kenny waits a while to make the throw. Feels like it waiting until someone is confirmed open vs anticipating it. 

And it's not that that can't improve, he really can be a magician in the pocket, but it's worrisome when its a known issue and something that's far more instinct than teachable.  He can definitely learn to play with more urgency as the fog clears with more reps. All just something to monitor, not run to a panic about. 

- I really, really hated the 3rd and 16 call. It was just rails and inside running curls/stops at about 13. This needed to be your best call, and simply one that gives you a chance on 4th down and it was basic, high school stuff. I am not even sure what he thought he would get here from the defense. I guess finding green against C2 with your outside guys pushing safeties? But common, have you routes work together. 

- The interception at the end of the game is another example of his struggles leaving the pocket for no reason. There was no reason for him to leave and no reason for him to be making that pass on the move. The OL did a really nice job in this game pass blocking, I thought. 

- I moved this one down because I did want to end on a good note. I want to see more NFL throws from Kenny. He absolutely pinned that throw to Freiermuth on the 4th down. Those throws that are accurate and well timed over the middle and in the intermediate -- those will determine if he is an NFL QB or not. We are not seeing lot of it, both because of the flaws of the offense and his release on to short routes. But that was an encouraging throw. 

[warfelg]

 

[warfelg]

 

[warfelg]

Interesting dynamics at play between the tracking and the player statements because now all 3 WRs have made comments about the lack of downfield throws. And I’m starting to think that the go routes are nothing more than a clearing tactic in the offense and the QBs are instructed to not look their way. 

[jebrick]

40 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Rewatching this game:

- I am starting to think Claypool is a double agent (/s). He seems to actually seek out other receiver on crossing routes. Kozora pointed this out in that post about Chase learning the slot, but Pickens ran a couple of crossers seamlessly with DJ. An odd thing for us to be continually bad at...

- ...and we had a chance to be bad at it a lot. Vertical rails w/ mid-field crossers were Canada's go to spam play this week. Makes sense, going against a heavy man team....but there ARE other concepts that beat man too. He really only seems to have one idea a week. 

- Canada's motion offense isn't doing anything. It rarely moves people to advantageous looks. I am not 100% sure of the culprit here; could be lack of success of those plays, could be lack of creativity with it, could be that no one is scared of us running anyway...but they don't really work the way they need to. Also needs a check system when we have a bad look/personnel match. Had an occurrence where we had Gunner (TELL!) coming from the left in trips in motion to the TE side. Theory here is that it pulls the man corner across the formation with him and leaves a gap on the backside of the run for Warren. Problem: they are not scared of you passing with Gunner on the field so they drop a S in the slot and leave a CB on the backside on a TE. The motion pushes the S to LB and the CB picks up man against the newly placed WR on the right. Warren is tackled by....you guessed it....the S that was right in the running lane. It was actually a 5 vs 3 blocking scheme. Not great. 

- Speaking of tells, I made a post about our personnel with Gentry and Watt being a high, really high percentage run. Gentry on the field in passing situations: really high percentage he is in to block. Not a threat. Hello extra guys in coverage!

- Sticking with Canada, or maybe Pickett being a rookie... this team desperately needs Pro-Style RPO add on to run calls. Not the sit in gun with the ball in the gut of the RB college style we see so much. The "two-plays" at the snap type where when Kenny alerts to too many men in the box (mainly, because we tell the team we are running with personnel/situation) he can take the snap and fire a jailbreak slant to the outside, doesn't even have to make a call. This is really common and helps be a tendency breaker. Used to do it a ton with Ben (though, he really favore the P part of RPO). Countless times early in downs we are under center against 8 in the box with off-man coverage. Just sling it and let your guy run. It's free yards and lightens the load after you gash them. 

- If you were low on Kenny, this was the game for you! He checked every box in every scouting reports "negatives". Missed a lot of opportunity with happy feet in a pocket that wasn't collapsing.  Lead to him dropping eyes on 3 occasions that I counted on key downs.  A big one came on the scramble that they caught Dan Moore on a hold for on a key third down. He bails on a really well protected pocket and has Chase opening up on the rub for what likely is a TD based on the way the safeties are playing. It's the difference of 17-16 lead vs 3rd and 16. Tough one. His timing is also out of whack. Needs to play with more urgency. Had a half roll where DJ is the only target -- and he is open. Kenny waits a while to make the throw. Feels like it waiting until someone is confirmed open vs anticipating it. 

And it's not that that can't improve, he really can be a magician in the pocket, but it's worrisome when its a known issue and something that's far more instinct than teachable.  He can definitely learn to play with more urgency as the fog clears with more reps. All just something to monitor, not run to a panic about. 

- I really, really hated the 3rd and 16 call. It was just rails and inside running curls/stops at about 13. This needed to be your best call, and simply one that gives you a chance on 4th down and it was basic, high school stuff. I am not even sure what he thought he would get here from the defense. I guess finding green against C2 with your outside guys pushing safeties? But common, have you routes work together. 

- The interception at the end of the game is another example of his struggles leaving the pocket for no reason. There was no reason for him to leave and no reason for him to be making that pass on the move. The OL did a really nice job in this game pass blocking, I thought. 

- I moved this one down because I did want to end on a good note. I want to see more NFL throws from Kenny. He absolutely pinned that throw to Freiermuth on the 4th down. Those throws that are accurate and well timed over the middle and in the intermediate -- those will determine if he is an NFL QB or not. We are not seeing lot of it, both because of the flaws of the offense and his release on to short routes. But that was an encouraging throw. 

 

Good stuff.  Back to my 'why can't the Steelers make plays like the Dolphins and 49'ers run'?  The Dolphin have a player in motion on  almost every play.  They are moving fast so they could be a jet sweep.  I would think that anyone making plays beyond a middle school level would make them look similar to each other so defense are not sure.

[warfelg]

11 minutes ago, jebrick said:

 

Good stuff.  Back to my 'why can't the Steelers make plays like the Dolphins and 49'ers run'?  The Dolphin have a player in motion on  almost every play.  They are moving fast so they could be a jet sweep.  I would think that anyone making plays beyond a middle school level would make them look similar to each other so defense are not sure.

It’s partially that to me, and it does warrant the question of are players then not putting in the right effort or is someone messing up a snap count and that’s why there’s all the “were right there” talk. 
 

But I more appreciate how things are built off of it. The motion that’s nothing then turns into the jet sweep. The jet sweep that turns into the deep bomb to the sweep side. The deep bomb that turns into the TE screen. 
 

That’s something that I thought Pickett playing could lead to. And it didn’t. Kenny started making the throws that could lead to building something like that and it never happened. 
 

Just like I posted above: the gos aren’t to get looks. The motions aren’t to get looks. They are just there to clear out space. Which is fine at the college level when players are more reactive than proactive. But when you are the safety who knows Pickens deep might be used once a game, it’s worth the gamble to go elsewhere knowing he isn’t the primary read. 

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

What's funny was I liked him, as a 5th round pick (maybe 4th) because he needed work but I thought he has interior flexibility.  Never thought he was a day one starter.  To me Tomlin's offseason comments about him were telling in a way.  Saying he was forced into a spot when he wasn't ready.  Makes me think that Tomlin wasn't excited about this pick and felt that his hand was forced on this option.

As if there was ever anymore proof needed that Warfelg and I will never agree on anything, it's this one right here. Mike Tomlin is very friendly with Lovie Smith. There is a direct connection between Tomlin and this kid, how he got on the Steelers radar. And Tomlin never did anything but sing his praises. I don't understand how a comment from Tomlin trumpeting Green up as day 1 ready could be twisted into him not being excited about the pick and that his hand was forced.

Positional flexibility and athleticism on the OL has been a staple of much of the Tomlin era. They have eschewed big maulers on the OL for swiss army knives most of the time and favored athleticism. I'd argue to the detriment of the OL at many points over the last decade and a half. Green fits the profile of what they have looked for at center in many respects, regardless of how you proportion blame. I don't see any evidence that Tomlin felt something was forced on him and he stuck with Green until injury forced his hand.

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

- Speaking of tells, I made a post about our personnel with Gentry and Watt being a high, really high percentage run. Gentry on the field in passing situations: really high percentage he is in to block. Not a threat. Hello extra guys in coverage!

Canada thinks he took care of this in week 1 when they managed to manufacture two nice plays to Gentry. That would keep teams scared for the rest of the season.

[warfelg]

 

[bigben07MVP]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

 

Seems to be on target for week 10 return after the bye week.

Wait…just realized that means we only have to watch this team without TJ for one more game! 😁

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Seems to be on target for week 10 return after the bye week.

Wait…just realized that means we only have to watch this team without TJ for one more game! 😁

I worry they did it too soon though. I saw someone suggest that the reason Austin isn’t getting activated yet is because they don’t know who to drop with all the injuries. 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Good stuff.  Back to my 'why can't the Steelers make plays like the Dolphins and 49'ers run'?  The Dolphin have a player in motion on  almost every play.  They are moving fast so they could be a jet sweep.  I would think that anyone making plays beyond a middle school level would make them look similar to each other so defense are not sure.

My .02 is that we call plays and they run offenses. There is a reason why Reid and McVay have picked the brain of Matt Canada but never offered him a spot on their staffs. He has some of the ideas of what is successful, but doesn't know how to make it work. 

These guys coming out of the Shannahan system all understand levers -- when we do X, defenders do Y. They build these structures around similar looks and have a multitude of options off them. Neutral downs against Shannahan? Best of luck figuring out which of the TE across the formation, the orbit/jet motion, the running back stretch, the shifting line, or the FB/H-Back lead is the tell. They do them so well, and so often they force you to honor all of them. They run them with multiple personnel groups out of different formations. We put specific people on the field so you know what we are doing. 

They  understand your rules and then they exploit them. Those guys are artists. 

Canada is pre-algebra Math. He knows the things that work, but doesn't (or can't) look big picture. He runs jets because he runs jets -- not because he understands the rules of the defense or sees angles he can exploit. 

Personally, I don't think Canada has any feel for what teams are doing to the Steelers. It's a very college thing. Generally in college, the focus is on what we do. The NFL is far more about marrying what we do and what they do. 

Fichtner spent 10 years as a College OC. Our offense was very what we do. 

Canada had 15 years as a college OC. Our offense is very what we do. 

A side note to the levers conversation: there was a really good Pod last week from The Athletic with Robert Mays and Nate Tice. Those are two of the best in the business at talking schematics. Conversation revolved around how there are ebbs and flows of the NFL schematics. Offenses have been up the last few years, but defenses are catching up and getting the edge this year. It's a fun talk about the ways the Shannahan offense exploited things on defense, was multiplied across the league, and now defenses are finding counters (like simulating pressures because the Shannahan rules say to throw hot, but now defenses have defenders ready). 

NFL is a game full of levers. Our offensive coaches have just sucked at pulling them for a while now. 

[bigben07MVP]

Sigh

[August4th]

Steelers never have success with speed demons they draft mid-rd, not a good start with Austin....

[Dcash4]

6 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Sigh

I wouldn't think too much of it yet, I would wait until the last minute too. I think Chris is wrong saying it makes no sense. What if someone rolls an ankle at practice today and you can use IR instead of cutting a player to get the roster spot for Austin (who won't play this week). 

The Steelers also follow this practice in camp -- players get another practice to show what they have and they make cuts after. 

Personally, I would put Sims on IR with his hammy. He and Gunner have the same role -- you don't need both active. Sucks he got hurt (I would rather see sims play), but I would rather not lose Austin for the entire year.