Top 20 Wide Receivers Of The Last 20 Years?

[BlaqOptic]

3 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

guy, you tried to get by saying brown has separated from jones, and have yet to put forth any reasonable argument saying why. You say 20 games shouldnt count fro brown but then use his stats from those 20 to show how he has "separated" from jones. no one has put up these ridiculously dominating level of games jones has at the frequency hes done it. Thats a fact.

Yes... Those 19 targets and 167 receiving yards surely are helping Brown in this argument... 

But you're right... Jones puts up more 250+ yard games than anyone else... Which only goes to further prove that he dissapears for several games a year too.

[GSUeagles14]

1 minute ago, BlaqOptic said:

Yes... Those 19 targets and 167 receiving yards surely are helping Brown in this argument... 

absolute laziness... brown only played 9 games his rookie year, even takin that out he has 13 more games played.That took a whooping one minute to look up.

[BlaqOptic]

2 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

absolute laziness... brown only played 9 games his rookie year, even takin that out he has 13 more games played.That took a whooping one minute to look up.

So now you're just ignoring that you were flatout wrong and being facetious. Again, that was never the argument... Let's go back shall we...

Quote

WR #1: 89 Career Games, 88 Career Starts, 84 Games With Significant Snaps, 863 Targets, 551 Receptions, 8,396 Yards, 41 Touchdowns, 2 1st Team All-Pros,

WR #2: 111 Career Games, 84 Career Starts, 95 Games With Significant Snaps, 1,058 Targets, 702 Receptions, 9,403 Yards, 56 Touchdowns, 3 1st Team All-Pros, 1 2nd Team All-Pro

That was the original argument... You claimed I was being facetious by looking at things based on Career Starts and Significant Snaps because of a whopping 19 targets and 160 yards from the first season. Rather than actually attempt (the laziness you're claiming for me) you failed to realize what exactly I said in the follow up conversation. So, despite his big game tonight, Jones would need to produce the following over his next 11 games to match Brown's production... 761 Receiving Yards and 15 Touchdowns... He's not putting that up. Period. But tell me again how Jones is playing at this unprecedented level?

 

[GSUeagles14]

3 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said:

So now you're just ignoring that you were flatout wrong and being facetious. Again, that was never the argument... Let's go back shall we...

That was the original argument... You claimed I was being facetious by looking at things based on Career Starts and Significant Snaps because of a whopping 19 targets and 160 yards from the first season. Rather than actually attempt (the laziness you're claiming for me) you failed to realize what exactly I said in the follow up conversation. So, despite his big game tonight, Jones would need to produce the following over his next 11 games to match Brown's production... 761 Receiving Yards and 15 Touchdowns... He's not putting that up. Period. But tell me again how Jones is playing at this unprecedented level?

 

show me where i ever said something about 9 games in browns rookie year. And while he wouldnt touch tds, hed blow by the yards. Now you want me to make an argument on how Jones has surpassed brown when you made the claim its the other way around and I clearly said its a coin flip. I really wish i would have left this alone after my very first post.

[BlaqOptic]

2 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

show me where i ever said something about 9 games in browns rookie year. And while he wouldnt touch tds, hed blow by the yards. Now you want me to make an argument on how Jones has surpassed brown when you made the claim its the other way around and I clearly said its a coin flip. I really wish i would have left this alone after my very first post.

While it's likely that Jones would surpass the yardage total let's not pretend it's guaranteed. I mean he only had 780 yards on 10 games this season. So let's quit it.

You want to believe Jones is better? Fine. I'll take the guy with a historic 5-year stretch only rivaled by Hall of Famers. But to sit here and make claims like "Julio has dominated on a level we actually haven't seen before" when Brown had already did it a year before and Boldin a decade before is a bit facetious. 

 

 

[bigbadbuff23835]

I don’t think it’s debatable that Julio is on AB’s level. He had one TD up until yesterday, you won’t see that happen with Antonio Brown. Julio isn’t as consistent either. Yeah he’ll put up the freak 250, or even 300 yard games but he’s only topped 100 yards two other times this year. Not all his fault either, sometimes i feel like they don’t feed him enough. Especially in the red zone. AB is just another level man. You can’t get offended by someone saying you’re the second best to a dude like AB. 

[JJ6]

23 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

Yes... Those 19 targets and 167 receiving yards surely are helping Brown in this argument... 

But you're right... Jones puts up more 250+ yard games than anyone else... Which only goes to further prove that he dissapears for several games a year too.

Julio disappearing is the perfect example of showing the Falcons offensive philosophy and Matt Ryans tendencies. I think we can all agree that Julio is essentially unguardable 1 on 1 so its not like hes getting shut down in those games. So why does he "dissapear"? Because Ryan is more than willing to spread the ball around and Julios cool with that, you won't see him throwing any gatorade tanks. The Falcons dont lean on Julio like the Steelers do with AB and Bell. Go read any Steelers in game thread and you'll always see somebody mentioning for the Steelers to stop going to AB and Bell every play (You'd never see that on a Falcons board with Julio because that never happens). You said it yourself yesterday on the Sunday Night mainboard thread. 

On top of that. Ben and the philosophy of the Steelers offense is way more advantageous for a WR to put up stats. Ben is willing to force the ball to his studs, can extend plays with his feet and has a strong arm so he can hit his WRs deep downfield. The Steelers as an offense love to heavily rely on Brown and Bell game in and game out which is huge for consistent production. 

Compare that with Ryan and the Falcons offense. Ryan is way more conservative, doesn't have a great deep ball (throws 40+), arm strength or the ability to extend plays with his feet. 

Don't get me wrong im not hating on Ryan I'd rather have him than Ben as my QB because of his overall traits, but the point remains. AB consistency over Julio is in large part to the team and QB he plays for/with. Put Julio on the Steelers and his numbers would rise pretty dramatically. 

 

 

[43M]

9 minutes ago, jarren said:

Julio disappearing is the perfect example of showing the Falcons offensive philosophy and Matt Ryans tendencies. I think we can all agree that Julio is essentially unguardable 1 on 1 so its not like hes getting shut down in those games. So why does he "dissapear"? Because Ryan is more than willing to spread the ball around and Julios cool with that, you won't see him throwing any gatorade tanks. The Falcons dont lean on Julio like the Steelers do with AB and Bell. Go read any Steelers in game thread and you'll always see somebody mentioning for the Steelers to stop going to AB and Bell every play (You'd never see that on a Falcons board with Julio because that never happens). You said it yourself yesterday on the Sunday Night mainboard thread. 

On top of that. Ben and the philosophy of the Steelers offense is way more advantageous for a WR to put up stats. Ben is willing to force the ball to his studs, can extend plays with his feet and has a strong arm so he can hit his WRs deep downfield. The Steelers as an offense love to heavily rely on Brown and Bell game in and game out which is huge for consistent production. 

Compare that with Ryan and the Falcons offense. Ryan is way more conservative, doesn't have a great deep ball (throws 40+), arm strength or the ability to extend plays with his feet. 

Don't get me wrong im not hating on Ryan I'd rather have him than Ben as my QB because of his overall traits, but the point remains. AB consistency over Julio is in large part to the team and QB he plays for/with. Put Julio on the Steelers and his numbers would rise pretty dramatically. 

 

 

All you do is make excuses.  Literally, thats all you ever do when it comes to Brown vs Julio.   

Its getting embarrassing at this point.  

[JJ6]

27 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

All you do is make excuses.  Literally, thats all you ever do when it comes to Brown vs Julio.   

Its getting embarrassing at this point.  

Ok. 

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, jarren said:

Julio disappearing is the perfect example of showing the Falcons offensive philosophy and Matt Ryans tendencies. I think we can all agree that Julio is essentially unguardable 1 on 1 so its not like hes getting shut down in those games. So why does he "dissapear"? Because Ryan is more than willing to spread the ball around and Julios cool with that, you won't see him throwing any gatorade tanks. The Falcons dont lean on Julio like the Steelers do with AB and Bell. Go read any Steelers in game thread and you'll always see somebody mentioning for the Steelers to stop going to AB and Bell every play (You'd never see that on a Falcons board with Julio because that never happens). You said it yourself yesterday on the Sunday Night mainboard thread. 

On top of that. Ben and the philosophy of the Steelers offense is way more advantageous for a WR to put up stats. Ben is willing to force the ball to his studs, can extend plays with his feet and has a strong arm so he can hit his WRs deep downfield. The Steelers as an offense love to heavily rely on Brown and Bell game in and game out which is huge for consistent production. 

Compare that with Ryan and the Falcons offense. Ryan is way more conservative, doesn't have a great deep ball (throws 40+), arm strength or the ability to extend plays with his feet. 

Don't get me wrong im not hating on Ryan I'd rather have him than Ben as my QB because of his overall traits, but the point remains. AB consistency over Julio is in large part to the team and QB he plays for/with. Put Julio on the Steelers and his numbers would rise pretty dramatically. 

 

 

You seem to be giving Ben too much credit and low-balling Ryan here in order to beef up Julio. Any objective fan that has watched every Steelers game will tell you that Ben has been off by more than a little bit this season (his hot and cold streaks during games have been VERY sporadic) and Bell was playing like **** until he decided to get his head out his ***. Yet Brown continues to still produce at the same rate.

Meanwhile; last season (despite the tough opposition - which I gave him and Ryan alot of credit for) Julio lit it up during a year that Ryan broke records. Yet, this year after the loss of Shanny, Ryan has struggled and Julio is not producing at the same rate.

What does that tell you? And don't blame it ALL on coaching either(emphasized for a reason) until you have watched a Haley gameplan take place for three years. 

These are the type of situations that help separate the very good players from great players.

And FYI, I have no horse in this race. But I have seen every Steelers game in it's entirety and then some over the last 2+ decades (Save for about 5 years. Mid-late 90's for 2 years(life caught up to me), again in 2012 (Father passed - didn't care about football), and 2014(?) - tired of watching that year.) and I can say with a straight face that Brown has been, by far, the best WR this year - yeah I'll say it. BY FAR.

[Pugger]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:27 PM, mdonnelly21 said:

#1. Randy Moss 
#2. T.O

#3. Calvin Johnson 
#4. Sterling Sharpe 
#5. Michael Irvin 

#6. Marvin Harrison 

#7. Larry Fitzgerald 

#8. Steve Smith 

#9. Marvin Harrison 

#10. Tory Holt 

#11. Cris Carter  

#12. Antonio Brown 

#13. Isaac Bruce 

#14. Julio Jones 
#15. Art Monk

#16. Andre Reed 

#17.  Reggie Wayne 

#18. Hines Ward 

#19. Chad Johnson 
#20. A.J Green 

How come you omitted Jerry Rice completely?

[JJ6]

10 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You seem to be giving Ben too much credit and low-balling Ryan here in order to beef up Julio. Any objective fan that has watched every Steelers game will tell you that Ben has been off by more than a little bit this season (his hot and cold streaks during games have been VERY sporadic) and Bell was playing like **** until he decided to get his head out his ***. Yet Brown continues to still produce at the same rate.

Meanwhile; last season (despite the tough opposition - which I gave him and Ryan alot of credit for) Julio lit it up during a year that Ryan broke records. Yet, this year after the loss of Shanny, Ryan has struggled and Julio is not producing at the same rate.

What does that tell you? And don't blame it ALL on coaching either(emphasized for a reason) until you have watched a Haley gameplan take place for three years. 

These are the type of situations that help separate the very good players from great players.

And FYI, I have no horse in this race. But I have seen every Steelers game in it's entirety and then some over the last 2+ decades (Save for about 5 years. Mid-late 90's for 2 years(life caught up to me), again in 2012 (Father passed - didn't care about football), and 2014(?) - tired of watching that year.) and I can say with a straight face that Brown has been, by far, the best WR this year - yeah I'll say it. BY FAR.

My post wasnt about just this year. If we're talking about this just season then yeah obviously Ben has declined but his strengths over Ryan still remain while Ryans strengths over Ben still remain the same.

Now the the difference in consistency comes down to the game to game target difference between AB and Julio. Lets compare:

AB: 11, 11, 14, 9, 19, 10, 10, 10, 7, 13, 12

Julio: 5, 9, 12, 4, 7, 13, 6, 12, 8, 10, 15

You tell me whos going to be more consistent? This goes directly back to my point that Brown is leaned on more on a per game basis than Julio is. 

Also looking into those numbers some more in the two games that Brown had less than 10 targets he's put up 34 and 47 yards respectively. So in the two games he put up less than 10 targets he "disappeared". Julio has seen less than 10 targets 6 times. More than half his games. Julio averages more yardage than Brown when you compare games under 10 targets. Give Julio 10+ targets a game and his production would be astronomically higher and consistent. 

Lastly, as for watching all the Steelers games. It really just makes me think of how little you've watched the Falcons. Ryan hasn't really stuggled like you said, nor is it the reason for Julios drop off in production. Julios drop off comes down to usage. Its no surprise that the Falcons have played alot better since making Julio a more consistent part of the game plan. 

[Mox]

Getting more targets can also mean you're better at getting open.

[GSUeagles14]

9 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You seem to be giving Ben too much credit and low-balling Ryan here in order to beef up Julio. Any objective fan that has watched every Steelers game will tell you that Ben has been off by more than a little bit this season (his hot and cold streaks during games have been VERY sporadic) and Bell was playing like **** until he decided to get his head out his ***. Yet Brown continues to still produce at the same rate.

Meanwhile; last season (despite the tough opposition - which I gave him and Ryan alot of credit for) Julio lit it up during a year that Ryan broke records. Yet, this year after the loss of Shanny, Ryan has struggled and Julio is not producing at the same rate.

What does that tell you? And don't blame it ALL on coaching either(emphasized for a reason) until you have watched a Haley gameplan take place for three years. 

These are the type of situations that help separate the very good players from great players.

And FYI, I have no horse in this race. But I have seen every Steelers game in it's entirety and then some over the last 2+ decades (Save for about 5 years. Mid-late 90's for 2 years(life caught up to me), again in 2012 (Father passed - didn't care about football), and 2014(?) - tired of watching that year.) and I can say with a straight face that Brown has been, by far, the best WR this year - yeah I'll say it. BY FAR.

ignoring jarrens response cause i dont agree with his reasoning...

 

you dont have a dog in the race but youve seen every steeler game for 20 years? And sorry, youre just flat out wrong. Juio is on pace for 1500 yards this year and that pace is increasing as hes getting more targets/game over the last month. it very much looks like he'll have the same production as last year and possibly even better. you really havent offered anything as to why brown is better outside of seeing every steeler game and a false narrative. Added on to that, did you seriously just say Julio isnt a great player? 

[GSUeagles14]

6 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Getting more targets can also mean you're better at getting open.

so youre saying julios ability to get open has pretty drastically changed over the last month as opposed to the first month of the season? Or is it possible that they just decided to feature a top 2 wr more in the offense?