Remainder of the Season QB

[Scott Land]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

He's just not very good. I really don't know why we need to see more of it? He was one Justin Fields one yard TD pass away from being 1-5 as a starter here. 

You could say the same about any one score game that comes down to it? He was 1 yard away from beating the Titans. Why do we need to see more of Taylor? We saw him all last season and now 3 games this year. 

[turtle28]

Should? Sam Howell.

Will? When healthy I think it’ll be Wentz bc GM Ron will still want to prove he made the correct decision in trading for Wentz.

Edited November 7, 2022 by turtle28

[turtle28]

On 11/7/2022 at 2:47 PM, Scott Land said:

You could say the same about any one score game that comes down to it? He was 1 yard away from beating the Titans. Why do we need to see more of Taylor? We saw him all last season and now 3 games this year. 

But Wentz didn’t. Why make a point like that which resulted in a game losing int?

Personally I don’t think we need to more of either Heinicke or Wentz, they both play like inconsistent QBs to me & are back up material. We should play Howell to see what we have for the future but, Ron won’t do that until we’re eliminated from the playoffs, if then.

Edited November 8, 2022 by turtle28

[Scott Land]

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

But Wentz didn’t. Why make a point like that which resulted in a game losing int?

Personally I don’t think we need to more of either Heinicke or Wentz, they both play like inconsistent QBs to me & are back up material. We should play Howell to see what we have for the future but, Ron won’t do that until we’re eliminated from the playoffs, if then.

Because Justin Fields didn't either? So why make that point?

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, Scott Land said:

You could say the same about any one score game that comes down to it? He was 1 yard away from beating the Titans. Why do we need to see more of Taylor? We saw him all last season and now 3 games this year. 

I want to see Howell but I absolutely do not want or need to see more of this Wentz train wreck. If. It seeing Wentz out on the field means playing Heinecke then so be it. For the life of me I cannot understand the fans that want to put this guy back out there and give up a second round pick? It’s just unbelievable. 

[Scott Land]

18 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I want to see Howell but I absolutely do not want or need to see more of this Wentz train wreck. If. It seeing Wentz out on the field means playing Heinecke then so be it. For the life of me I cannot understand the fans that want to put this guy back out there and give up a second round pick? It’s just unbelievable. 

I said "put Wentz out there until the bye". If we are winning and still have a chance to make the playoffs, you play to make the playoffs, if we don't have a chance put Howell in. They still stay under the threshold and we keep the 2nd round pick. I don't think that's that hard to understand. 

[Slappy Mc]

I am going to assume that the OP wants to know which I would prefer, it would 100% be Sam Howell. We aren't winning a championship with either Heinicke or Wentz. If the championship is out of the question, give me a developmental QB that can get some quality experience and take his lumps. If he sucks, we should have a decent draft pick, if he shows promise, maybe we don't have to worry about QB early.

What I believe will happen is that Wentz will come back. He will barely make the threshold to cost us a 2nd round pick. He will "guide" us to a 7-10 record and be anointed the starter next season in what will be the last of Rivera's and Wentz's tenure here and a new regime will start with their hand picked staff in 2024.

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, Scott Land said:

Look at the Colts this year, you think that team was ready to succeed? He wasn't the problem with the Colts. Their roster simply isn't good. The Eagles weren't good the year before either. Now this year I think his supporting cast should have given him opportunity to be successful, but the Oline sucks and he also held onto the ball too long, and can no longer move. IMO I think you give Wentz the reigns back until the bye and if we are completely out of it which I assume will be the case, give it to Howell. 

That does sound like a good idea

[e16bball]

I see a lot of people, in a lot of places, saying things like “we need to see what we have in San Howell.”

We really don’t. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m cool with it, if they want to play him. It would be great if they felt he warranted some playing time. But we don’t need to do anything with a 5th round pick QB. Until someone tells us something that suggests otherwise, he’s irrelevant to the future at QB. 

In the last 20 drafts, the most successful QB picked in round 5 or later has been old friend Ryan Fitzpatrick, who has thrown for almost 35k yards and over 200 TDs. Next best is pretty clearly Matt Cassel, then you’ve got guys like Tyrod Taylor, Gardner Minshew, Trevor Siemian, and Derek Anderson. Those are the best the last 3 rounds of the draft have had to offer in two decades. 

The overwhelming likelihood is that Howell will turn out to be nothing of note. The whole league was basically uninterested, and everyone basically passed on him 4+ times. The league does not miss that badly frequently. If they think they have something in him worth checking out, I assume they’ll get him out there for some snaps this year. If not…oh well, it was still worth a gamble at that part of the draft.

[e16bball]

The answer to this one is tough for me. 

I think Wentz is — in a vacuum — clearly the better player between he and Heinicke. However, Heinicke’s familiarity with the offense gives him a leg up that evens the playing field by a lot. The team also believes in Heinicke and gets excited about him in a way that they don’t seem to do with Wentz. 

The kicker, I guess, is the draft pick. On this team and in this offense, Wentz is certainly not that much better than Heinicke that it would warrant giving up that 2nd round pick to keep him out there for all the snaps as soon as he gets off IR. That is a steep price to pay when it’s unclear which one even gives you the better chance to win. 

I think ideally Wentz would have to sit out the full 6 weeks, and then you’d bring him back. I have some degree of optimism that with a lot of time to sit and just do mental reps, he may come back with a stronger command of the offense. That could be key in increasing his efficiency and processing speed.

[lavar703]

12 hours ago, e16bball said:

I see a lot of people, in a lot of places, saying things like “we need to see what we have in San Howell.”

We really don’t. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m cool with it, if they want to play him. It would be great if they felt he warranted some playing time. But we don’t need to do anything with a 5th round pick QB. Until someone tells us something that suggests otherwise, he’s irrelevant to the future at QB. 

In the last 20 drafts, the most successful QB picked in round 5 or later has been old friend Ryan Fitzpatrick, who has thrown for almost 35k yards and over 200 TDs. Next best is pretty clearly Matt Cassel, then you’ve got guys like Tyrod Taylor, Gardner Minshew, Trevor Siemian, and Derek Anderson. Those are the best the last 3 rounds of the draft have had to offer in two decades. 

The overwhelming likelihood is that Howell will turn out to be nothing of note. The whole league was basically uninterested, and everyone basically passed on him 4+ times. The league does not miss that badly frequently. If they think they have something in him worth checking out, I assume they’ll get him out there for some snaps this year. If not…oh well, it was still worth a gamble at that part of the draft.

Maybe this time it will be different. Probably won’t and you’ll most likely be proven right but there’s always a chance. 

[turtle28]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:15 PM, Scott Land said:

Because Justin Fields didn't either? So why make that point?

Fields is a different case, he’s a young & developing QB. Wentz just doesn’t have “it.” He’s not a franchise QB, so we’re wasting our time continuing to play him hoping he will play like one when he isn’t want.

If Wentz is our staring QB next year & making $26 mil, I will really, really he disappointed.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Maybe this time it will be different. Probably won’t and you’ll most likely be proven right but there’s always a chance. 

Howell will get his chance eventually but it’s very unlikely to be soon or with this team in playoff contention. 
 

It’s most likely that Howell is competing for a starting spot next off-season with a rookie & Heinicke or someone else, but I don’t see it being this year.

[turtle28]

14 hours ago, e16bball said:

The answer to this one is tough for me. 

I think Wentz is — in a vacuum — clearly the better player between he and Heinicke. However, Heinicke’s familiarity with the offense gives him a leg up that evens the playing field by a lot. The team also believes in Heinicke and gets excited about him in a way that they don’t seem to do with Wentz. 

The kicker, I guess, is the draft pick. On this team and in this offense, Wentz is certainly not that much better than Heinicke that it would warrant giving up that 2nd round pick to keep him out there for all the snaps as soon as he gets off IR. That is a steep price to pay when it’s unclear which one even gives you the better chance to win. 

I think ideally Wentz would have to sit out the full 6 weeks, and then you’d bring him back. I have some degree of optimism that with a lot of time to sit and just do mental reps, he may come back with a stronger command of the offense. That could be key in increasing his efficiency and processing speed.

I really don’t think that Wentz is a guy who’s ever going to quickly process things & get the ball out fast. He just hasn’t done that his whole career, so I don’t think it happens. If he comes back the starter in 2 or 3 weeks, I don’t expect to see much different than what we saw the first 6 weeks of the season.

Maybe we win some more games bc the defense is playing great & Wentz makes some plays through the air but I don’t think Wentz will be greatly improved when he comes back.

At this point, Wentz is what he is in this league. He’s a QB with poor pocket presence, who craters under pressure, doesn’t see the field well, holds onto the ball too long & is inaccurate.

[Scott Land]

17 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Fields is a different case, he’s a young & developing QB. Wentz just doesn’t have “it.” He’s not a franchise QB, so we’re wasting our time continuing to play him hoping he will play like one when he isn’t want.

If Wentz is our staring QB next year & making $26 mil, I will really, really he disappointed.

Of course you say it's "a different case". Don't come at me saying "Why make a point like that?" and then all of a sudden change the metric because of who the QB is and how old they are. Neither quarterbacks threw the touchdown at the end of the game on the goal line to win the game. That's the point I'm making here. 

Look at the stat lines without names on them and tell me who the better quarterback is. I know stats don't always tell the truth but sometimes they do.