The Josh Jacobs Decision

[BackinBlack]

back on topic though, I expect Jimmy to play good football for us, and for JMD to call much better games having a qb he has trust in. 

I still expect us to play conservative football, setting up 3rd and shorts. 
Penalties the last few years have killed us in the 3rd and shorts where someone jumps and now we looking at 3rd and 7. 

I think while not SF level of YAC, we have sneaky good YAC wrs, and the overall better WR corp. 
Jimmy likes throwing to the open wr instead of forcing into tight coverage, and Adams and Renfrow are two of the best at seperation. I believe this is a strength of Meyers too. 

Hopefully Mayer contributes like he is capable of, and Tre can provide from speed. 

Im not worried about the O. (expecting JAcobs back)
I am still worried about the D. 

Great to hear they are performing well in practice, but I wanna see it before I get to excited. 

[raidr4life]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

my man, what you are doing right now, is the same as saying 
"so unless you can say Carr would have went 8-2 or better in the first 10 games where Jimmy went 7-3 is he really better"

It is why, I have always said, using win losses as an arguement isnt the end all be all, because its always different circumstances. 

I appreciate you making my point, that wins losses arent a great way at saying which qb is better. 

You literally claimed the niners got better without Garrapolo and went 5-0 with Purdy so in a way you made wins and losses a QB stat.

[BackinBlack]

Just now, raidr4life said:

You literally claimed the niners got better without Garrapolo and went 5-0 with Purdy so in a way you made wins and losses a QB stat.

yeah, I was saying it sarcarstically to NYRaider who regularly brings up that stat. 
I used Purdy to show how absurd it is, and you have now been arguing that its not fair. 
You are another ive seen toss out the win loss is a QB stat, so it was entertaining watch you flip sides. 
-
If you want to believe that WL is a QB stat, then Purdy was better than Jimmy G. 
-
If you are open to the idea, that maybe there is more to it then just QBs, then you have to give Carr some break in his WL record for having some terrible teams and Ds throughout his career. 
 

[raidr4life]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

yeah, I was saying it sarcarstically to NYRaider who regularly brings up that stat. 
I used Purdy to show how absurd it is, and you have now been arguing that its not fair. 
You are another ive seen toss out the win loss is a QB stat, so it was entertaining watch you flip sides. 
-
If you want to believe that WL is a QB stat, then Purdy was better than Jimmy G. 
-
If you are open to the idea, that maybe there is more to it then just QBs, then you have to give Carr some break in his WL record for having some terrible teams and Ds throughout his career. 
 

Carr loses about 3 games a year just by his play, like I said I can see when a qb doesn't have it, and thats not absolving the rest of the team, but the reason this is such a debate because Carrs bad play leave it open for discussion if he consistently played well it would be obvious the defense or weapons let him down but it's not all the time. And I have not said w/l is solely a qb stat. I did an entire post on it sometime back. At the same time the guy threw 5tds, 4 ints and 4 fumbles during the playoff run and yall want to give him all the credit right.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

I've had that same thought a few times in the last 5 years.  Each year we ended up in the same place with a pretty good offense, a porous defense, an average record, and a little drama to a lot of drama. 

I'm really starting to think that the only reason that some people are positive is because Carr is gone.  He was the lone problem in their eyes when he was here and now that he's gone everything is better.

That's still a blind way of looking at things.

 

Carr was a divisive character the last 9 seasons, no doubt. I do think Carr was pretty milquetoast as a face of franchise guy. Good dude, but soft. He was so easily rattled and not just on the field. Couldn't take criticism in the media. Would block reporters on twitter. Big brother always out there fighting his battles. Dude is not a winner. 

The killer over the last 5+ years especially is the blown draft picks. You traded a HOF *** kicker and a terrific WR that amounted to basically squat. Tons of picks pissed away. Not even solid role players to show for it. 

Things are for from better but I personally like the direction they are going to overhaul the culture. The development of these young players will be key and they need to identify their QBOTF eventually to right the ship.

 

 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, raidr4life said:

Carr loses about 3 games a year just by his play, like I said I can see when a qb doesn't have it, and thats not absolving the rest of the team, but the reason this is such a debate because Carrs bad play leave it open for discussion if he consistently played well it would be obvious the defense or weapons let him down but it's not all the time. And I have not said w/l is solely a qb stat. I did an entire post on it sometime back. At the same time the guy threw 5tds, 4 ints and 4 fumbles during the playoff run and yall want to give him all the credit right.

Carr definitely is due for 2-4 wtf games a year it seems. 
Essentially imo at least, there are only like 4-5 QBs who consistently play at a high level. So I read the bold, as long as you dont have a top 5 QB, you cant only blame the D. I guess there is some truth to that. 

As for the niners, I think its pretty obvious that when you have success with all 3 qbs, your team is set up for a QB to do well. 
The niners would be in big trouble if this injury happened 2 years down the road instead of Purdys first year. They get to watch him the next 2 seasons before paying him big. 

The best chance at winning a SB without an elite QB, is a QB on rookie contract to build a stacked roster. 
Burrow is great no doubt, as is herbert and lawrence, but game is about to get a lot tougher for them once they get their big money

[raidr4life]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Carr definitely is due for 2-4 wtf games a year it seems. 
Essentially imo at least, there are only like 4-5 QBs who consistently play at a high level. So I read the bold, as long as you dont have a top 5 QB, you cant only blame the D. I guess there is some truth to that. 

As for the niners, I think its pretty obvious that when you have success with all 3 qbs, your team is set up for a QB to do well. 
The niners would be in big trouble if this injury happened 2 years down the road instead of Purdys first year. They get to watch him the next 2 seasons before paying him big. 

The best chance at winning a SB without an elite QB, is a QB on rookie contract to build a stacked roster. 
Burrow is great no doubt, as is herbert and lawrence, but game is about to get a lot tougher for them once they get their big money

Nah bro you reading it how you want to read it, you don't have to be a top 5 QB to play at a consistent decent level. Jimmy is nowhere near top 5 but he was consistently decent. And there are a bunch of QB'S who don't f off games on a regular.

[true2form]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

The Team showing early signs of improvement and life for positions we struggle in and the last remnants of the Carr troop comes flying in with negativity pointing to past teams

 

LOL I swear there’s people just hoping to watch this team fail

No, earlier today, the Carr haters were bringing him up for the reason things were so much better.

[true2form]

19 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Carr was a divisive character the last 9 seasons, no doubt. I do think Carr was pretty milquetoast as a face of franchise guy. Good dude, but soft. He was so easily rattled and not just on the field. Couldn't take criticism in the media. Would block reporters on twitter. Big brother always out there fighting his battles. Dude is not a winner. 

The killer over the last 5+ years especially is the blown draft picks. You traded a HOF *** kicker and a terrific WR that amounted to basically squat. Tons of picks pissed away. Not even solid role players to show for it. 

Things are for from better but I personally like the direction they are going to overhaul the culture. The development of these young players will be key and they need to identify their QBOTF eventually to right the ship.

 

 

I know and like before I agree with most of that.  

I just get tired of the yippee Carr is gone, so now we're going to the playoffs crowd.  As if anything is that simple or easy. 

This team isn't a whole lot different than last year.  And before anyone starts rattling off any additions, we had the same thing last year before guys started getting hurt and we were picking up guys off the street.  Maybe depth is a bit better in the secondary and at WR, but unless injuries happen right now, half those guys will be cut before the season.

Glass half empty or glass half full doesn't matter to me, it's 4 ounces of water either way.  

[BackinBlack]

15 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Nah bro you reading it how you want to read it, you don't have to be a top 5 QB to play at a consistent decent level. Jimmy is nowhere near top 5 but he was consistently decent. And there are a bunch of QB'S who don't f off games on a regular.

fair enough, i dont think our past teams were  good enough to drag a consistently decent qb into the playoffs. 
hopefully our D steps up, and being around the 10-15 range O, is good enough. 
Unfortunately, I believe we will need to be top 10 in ppg to be a playoff contender this year. 

I think we can be top 10 in points, but i have us more in that 10-15 range, and making progress on D, but still in the bottom 12. Which will put us around 500. 

But we have some Ifs we can hope for as fans, IF Jacobs and Adams continue to destroy. IF MAxx wins Dpoy, wilson rookie of year etc, we can make big jumps I think

[ronjon1990]

5 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Nah bro you reading it how you want to read it, you don't have to be a top 5 QB to play at a consistent decent level. Jimmy is nowhere near top 5 but he was consistently decent. And there are a bunch of QB'S who don't f off games on a regular.

Was he really though? 

2017, he looked poised for a stellar run with SF going forward, no doubt. 

2018 he only played 3 games, lost 2, amd looked like hot trash in 1 of them. 

2019 was a very good year, but he had a few games he was a dud in  and a couple more he was more or less just a guy playing QB. 

2020, when he played, he was pretty 50/50. A couple very good games, a couple wtf games. 

2021 he started downhill early, rebound hot, then slowly petered out again before becoming an essential non-factor in the playoffs. 

2022 he looked his best overall in my opinion, which is why I don't mind having him for 2023. But he experiences plenty of highs and lows in both play and what his contribution is.

The less he's asked to do, the better he winds up playing- and not just by putting up smaller stats. Weirdly, dude can rack up the stats when he's not asked to carry the team. It's like telling him to not do too much unlocks his ironic super power. 

That's what gives me pause though for Jimmy and the Raiders. How often are we gonna be able to put him in that position? 

[raidr4life]

6 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

fair enough, i dont think our past teams were  good enough to drag a consistently decent qb into the playoffs. 
hopefully our D steps up, and being around the 10-15 range O, is good enough. 
Unfortunately, I believe we will need to be top 10 in ppg to be a playoff contender this year. 

I think we can be top 10 in points, but i have us more in that 10-15 range, and making progress on D, but still in the bottom 12. Which will put us around 500. 

But we have some Ifs we can hope for as fans, IF Jacobs and Adams continue to destroy. IF MAxx wins Dpoy, wilson rookie of year etc, we can make big jumps I think

Well I say we were still a playoff team last year if Carr didn't have 4 wtf games. Lmao people started saying JMD was calling bad plays on purpose to make Carr look bad.

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Well I say we were still a playoff team last year if Carr didn't have 4 wtf games. Lmao people started saying JMD was calling bad plays on purpose to make Carr look bad.

He didnt do it to make Carr bad, he just didnt trust Carr so its tough to call a game when you dont trust your QB. 
I know people like to say Carr sucked in the second half against the rams, but they called 7 pass attempts. 
4 of which were on the only drive we scored, and 1 was a hail mary. 

That is a clear case of a coach either not trusting his QB, or having faith in a Defense. 
May of been a bit of both against Baker and the Rams, but I said after that game you may as well bench Carr if thats what youre going to call with him in the game. 

Maybe we do make playoffs, although I dont think its likely. 
When teams went to 4 down territory against us, they typically could score. 
 

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

But if their team was so great and Jimmy is so mid like you’ve said then why does he have the 7th best win % in nfl history? And why is Shanahan’s career record terrible without him? 

With KS coaching and the stacked roster all the 9ers need is someone who is average at best which Jimmy G is.  As average as Jimmy G is there is a huge difference between him and a super bum like Nick "Montana" Mullins.  I remember 9er fans thinking he was the next big thing after he carved up our pathetic D like a Thanksgiving turkey.  I was laughing calling him a clipboard holder that carved up a high school caliber D which turned out to be the case....

The 9ers won in spite of Jimmy G not because of him which will be highlighted this year as the 9ers will be good and Jimmy G will show who he really is playing behind a terrible D, playing catch up every game and not having to protect a lead.  

[bucksavage1]

45 minutes ago, true2form said:

No, earlier today, the Carr haters were bringing him up for the reason things were so much better.

All I care about is the team winning. Carr is on another team. If you’re a fan of his, no problem go cheer for the Saints just don’t take negativity out of our Raiders.