WEEK 13 Gameday Thread ---- Green Bay Packers (4-8) @ Chicago Bears (3-9) --- LOVE showcase game???

[Packer_ESP]

3 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Would it matter what number I gave?   You wouldn't believe it any way. 

If I review all of the games and give you my number would it hold any weight with you?  Be honest with the answer to this.   Do you really believe there have only been 19 throw away passes?   

If you reviewed just one game and compared with the PFR number for that game (I can't see splits by games, need a subscription) so we could compare the divergence then yeah, it would hold a lot of weight. I would be able to understand if your definition seems reasonable or not and therefore if you are right in this conversation or not. Again, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but to just dismiss the only number we have because "it feels low" doesn't really hold a lot of weight.

[Striker]

Per PFR, Rodgers is being pressured 17.8 percent of the time per dropback. He has a time to throw of 2.69 seconds, a pocket time (either before he throws or before pressure occurs) of 2.2 seconds, and IAY/PA (Intended Air Yards) of 8.0

It was 22.3 percent in 2021 with a 2.63 second time to throw, 2.5 seconds of pocket time, and IAY of 7.7.

In 2020 it was 14.2 percent with a 2.72 second time to throw, 2.6 seconds of pocket time, and IAY of 7.9.

That being said, Rodgers saw a 22.18 percent pressure rate average in the first eight games vs 11.86 in the five since. 7 IAY vs. 9.36. 

If you look at the OL scores, this change tracks with Jenkins return to LG/playing better along with Bakhtiari really turning it on as well. Stabilizing the left side of the line helped a ton.

[Packer_ESP]

1 minute ago, Striker said:

That being said, Rodgers saw a 22.18 percent pressure rate average in the first eight games vs 11.86 in the five since. 7 IAY vs. 9.36. 

If you look at the OL scores, this change tracks with Jenkins return to LG/playing better along with Bakhtiari really turning it on as well. Stabilizing the left side of the line helped a ton.

I suspect it's probably the same with the throwaways, more in the first bunch of games then fewer in the recent ones. Does anyone have a PFR sub to get this split? Link is here, I just can't see the results:

Aaron Rodgers | Player Game Stats Finder | Stathead.com 

[Striker]

2 minutes ago, Packer_ESP said:

I suspect it's probably the same with the throwaways, more in the first bunch of games then fewer in the recent ones. Does anyone have a PFR sub to get this split? Link is here, I just can't see the results:

Aaron Rodgers | Player Game Stats Finder | Stathead.com 

I did the free trial for the purposes of this debate because the internet.

Anyway, Aaron Rodgers throwaways:

Week 1 - 3
Week 2 - 1
Week 3 - 4
Week 4 - 4
Week 7 - 1
Week 8 - 1
Week 9 - 3
Week 10 - 1
Week 11 - 1
 

[AlexGreen#20]

5 hours ago, hitnhope said:

I don't give a crap who it is.  If the Site is stating that there have only been 19 throw aways for the Packer's this year they are wrong.   It is a statistic without value the way they are tallying it.  That is the kindest thing I could say about it.

Anyone that has watched the games knows there have been a significantly higher number that that.   It is obvious that there could be disagreement on what a throw away is, but if the tally is 19 and you give that any credence we will never come to any kind of an agreement.  

I'm not taking a loss based on some ridiculous and obviously incorrect stat.   It's a trash number.  

What if I told you that per PFF Rodgers averaged 19 throw aways per season from 2008-2014?

What if I told you that QB Mine Data has 5.4% of throws being throw aways for an average NFL QB. 

What if I told you that your eye test needs to go see an optometrist and consequently you shrieking "Nuh uh" doesn't mean anything to anybody with an IQ above room temperature?

[hitnhope]

What if I told you your bias is obvious to anybody with an IQ above room temperature? 

Your opinion means nothing to me after reading your constant criticism of the league MVP every game for the past few years. You can't be consistently wrong that often and think you have the high ground.

You pull out stats like this without any framework or objectivity and get your back up when called on the problems with your "stat".   Why didn't you post anything about the others I noted?   No response?   Just don't like it when someone calls you on your biased observations.

[Striker]

2 hours ago, Striker said:

I did the free trial for the purposes of this debate because the internet.

Anyway, Aaron Rodgers throwaways:

Week 1 - 3
Week 2 - 1
Week 3 - 4
Week 4 - 4
Week 7 - 1
Week 8 - 1
Week 9 - 3
Week 10 - 1
Week 11 - 1
 

Rodgers 12 incompletions, Week 1:

-1st and 10, GB 25: Watson drop
-1st and 10, GB 35: Rushed by Hunter on TE screen, tries to get it above Hunter (or right at Hunter?) and it's deflected
-3rd and 7, GB 38: Incomplete to Doubs. Not on same page.

-2nd and 8, MIN 40: Incomplete short to Dillon (maybe a drop but he was going to get blown up)

-1st and 10, GB 25: Throwaway
-3nd and 7, GB 28: Incomplete to Jones (misfire/drop?)

-1st and 10, GB 25: Interception

-2nd and 7, GB 48: Throwaway

-1st and 10, MIN 49: This might be the throwaway, but Rodgers was hit while throwing so it fell short of everything (he also had about 5 seconds to throw it). 
-1st and 10, MIN 27: This also might be the throwaway, but I think Jones had a shot at catching this (the pocket also collapsed quicky).
-3rd and 1, MIN 18: WR screen, incomplete to Watson
-4th and 1, MIN 18: Incomplete to Tonyan

 

[Striker]

2 hours ago, Striker said:

I did the free trial for the purposes of this debate because the internet.

Anyway, Aaron Rodgers throwaways:

Week 1 - 3
Week 2 - 1
Week 3 - 4
Week 4 - 4
Week 7 - 1
Week 8 - 1
Week 9 - 3
Week 10 - 1
Week 11 - 1
 

Rodgers 6 incompletions, Week 2:

2nd and 7, CHI 36: Quick pressure, pass over Dillon's head (could be the throwaway)
1st and 15, CHI 18: Incomplete to Doubs, Doubs/Rodgers not on same page
2nd and 15, CHI 18: Incomplete to Doubs, PBU by Gordon

1st and 10, GB 36: Incomplete to Dillon

1st and 10, GB 39: Maybe a little low, but a Watkins drop
2nd and 10, GB 39: Most likely the throwaway to Tyler Davis

You could argue there were two throwaways in this game vs. the one recorded. The pass to Davis Rodgers was being contacted as he tried to either get it out of bounds or to Davis who was doing...something.

[Striker]

It also doesn't take long to find these incompletions if you use the play-by-play on PFR and still have the games on YouTube TV.

[AlexGreen#20]

6 hours ago, hitnhope said:

We all must know Alex Greene pulls stats like this out to find new ways to criticize Rodger's.   

And people say I'm obsessed with Rodgers????

I said nothing about Rodgers. YOU brought up Rodgers.

I was talking about the Offensive Line. 

The fact that you are a Rodgers fan and not a Packers fan and consequently only view things through that lens isn't on me. 

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Yet the same site has Rodger's accuracy number as 6th best in the league.  Trailing stalwarts like Matt Ryan, Kyler Murray and Andy Dalton.

Better than Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc.

You ready to change your tune and make the statement that Rodgers has been very accurate this year?

Sure, take it as a number along with a bunch of other stats. I think Rodgers has been fairly accurate this year. 

I will not call him an elite accurate passer this year when you take into account he's 25th in Completed Air Yards/Pass Attempt. That tells me he's completing a bunch of check down passes. 

Which is good, that's what you should do. But the offensive impotence is at least partially on the trigger man. 

[AlexGreen#20]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Yah, I'm catching up on that.  I only went back like 2 pages on this thing, as I don't have the time, nor the patience to read this whole thread.

For what it is worth, I'd love someone to take the time to look at a true throw away number.  But that would be a pain in the neck to do.

In my "from memory" test.  I remember one scramble to the left that Rodgers threw out of bounds, no chance, just a throw away.  And I think he had 2 if not three of those in the end zone, no real chance at completion, but probably close enough to be an attempt and throw away.  So I'll bet those get really, really subjective.

We won't have the numbers from Sunday until tomorrow. 

[hitnhope]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Sure, take it as a number along with a bunch of other stats. I think Rodgers has been fairly accurate this year. 

I will not call him an elite accurate passer this year when you take into account he's 25th in Completed Air Yards/Pass Attempt. That tells me he's completing a bunch of check down passes. 

Which is good, that's what you should do. But the offensive impotence is at least partially on the trigger man. 

Why are the air yards so low?   Why is the time from snap to pass so short?   Do you not think it has something to do with the OL?  

 

You and others here constantly said that Rodgers won't check down, throw short passes or run MLF's offense.   If he isn't running the offense why does MLF put him on the filed?   Shouldn't he be the one criticized.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, hitnhope said:

Why are the air yards so low?   Why is the time from snap to pass so short?   Do you not think it has something to do with the OL?  

 

You and others here constantly said that Rodgers won't check down, throw short passes or run MLF's offense.   If he isn't running the offense why does MLF put him on the filed?   Shouldn't he be the one criticized.

Nope. I think it has to do with the offensive scheme and Rodgers decision making. 

Rodgers has adjusted his game to fit the new offense . . . At times.

As far as LaFleur not being firmer with Rodgers when Rodgers goes rogue, I've been quite critical of LaFleur for that. 

[AlexGreen#20]

16 minutes ago, Striker said:

It also doesn't take long to find these incompletions if you use the play-by-play on PFR and still have the games on YouTube TV.

You're a hero for doing this.