2023 Off-season Talk

[Dr.O]

15 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Since you guys are experts on Carr and Rodgers give me a breakdown of their play last season. Things they did well, things they struggled with(I know they were perfect and flawless but at least try). How should we structure the offense to highlight their strengths? 

Rodgers ran out of DMT and Josh McDaniels ruins everything he touches

[GangGreen420]

The focus is so much on the QB. Meanwhile Saleh still leaves a lot to be desired and Hacketts track record is terrible without Rodgers.

 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, NYJETS52 said:

I mean honestly a broken thumb on your throwing hand.  If that isnt a reasonable excuse I dont really know what is.

Then why was he out there and not Love?  He may have had a boo boo but it obviously was not enough for him to NOT play. Therefore, the excuse is only minimally valid. 

[GangGreen420]

2 minutes ago, xrade said:

Then why was he out there and not Love?  He may have had a boo boo but it obviously was not enough for him to NOT play. Therefore, the excuse is only minimally valid. 

Rodgers himself also came out and said the injury was not a difference maker and he’s played through worse. I remember he literally said it effected only 1 in 100 throws or something like that

[Bobby816]

Few things that jump out at me that I love with Rodgers and Carr…..

1st is how they’re vets and know when to get rid of the ball. I for one will be the 1st to say our OL play wasn’t good. But having a QB that knows when to get rid of the ball and can go through his reads WAY quicker than what we’ve seen from our QBs is huge. I see both GB and LV OLines consistently grade high in PP. But it isn’t all talent. The Talent is actually less of a factor than Rodgers and Carr just being great at not holding onto the ball and keeping where to go. This is huge for us with them. And they’re both great at this.

2nd is accuracy and having all the throws. They also have great pocket awareness. Not threats to run. But have that sense when and where to move around in the pocket and such. This is big for us as well. Wilson just ran way too much doing zig zags and just throwing the ball wherever. And white and Flacco were statues in the pocket. Having guys that have picket awareness.

 

Now to each one on their own bc for me Rodgers is elite and I have Carr around that 10-15 type QB. So obviously I don’t view them the same.

 

The big difference I see that makes Rodgers better than Carr is his accuracy and decisions making. Rodgers low INT numbers throughout his career are among the best ever (maybe best ever). And you next to never see Rodgers miss wide open guys and making poor decisions. He also has quite a bit more playoff experience. Which winning playoff games was something we did value when going after FAs last offseason.

 

Now to their seasons last year.

I’ll start with Rodgers. And I’ll start with coaching. He lost Hackett who he was close with. And they’d seemed to be on the same page. Now a vet like Rodgers rely on coaching as much as a young guy and he relatively will still do his thing. But it’s worth noting that he had a new OC. Next which I think is the biggest thing that saw him start slow was 2 rookie WRs that weren’t exactly polished guys from big schools that seemed to really struggle. I’m talking about Watson and Doubs. Now the lazy assessment would be then why if brought here would it be different with Wilson and Moore. Because Wilson and Moore haven’t had problems grasping playbooks or knowing all the positions to move around. And even bigger knowing where to be. We saw lots of times Doubs and Watson just looking lost early in the year. Our guys being 2nd and 3rd year guys helps. Now these struggles with the new OC and WRs carried to when he broken his finger. So not sure why a broken finger on a throwing hand is belittled by some. But that’s huge. Rodgers actually battled through this but you could tell he wants this same self. But at this same time his WRs were getting better and the system was adapting. And things looked more fluid for them as the season went on. Rodgers still ended with 26 TDs. But INT numbers were higher than we’re used to. And I think that was a lot to do with the system, hand and young WRs. I expect with a healthy hand to be better regardless. But for us if we’re his landing spot. The familiarity with Hackett and the system is seem less. It’s more the WRs and TEs getting on the same page as him as well as the OL getting that internal clock down. I think with vets at TE and young WRs in GW and Moore who seem to have football smarts. We should be good.

 

Now to Carr. I see a lot of the same system wise. He got a whole new system, HC and WR room pretty much. He also was without his safety nets most the season in Waller and Renfrow. Carr had a rather odd season bc for the heart of the season he was really good. He had a 9 game stretch after week 1 where he threw 14 TDs to just 1 INT. But then the play just declined after that. Seemed when you watch him he was trying to force things. Which isn’t something he’s done really in his career. So for me if you take just that 5 game sample size he was bad. That’s extremely small to what he’s shown over his career. He’s never had a stretch like that. I blame a lot of what we saw with him on JMD. I think he’s a ****** if a coach and is really hard to like. So I think Carr and him never clicked. Also people thought the Carr and Adams playing together 8 years ago would be seemless. When obviously it wasn’t like riding a bike. With Carr I look more at the guy that has taken poor rosters to winning games that they never should and winning drives. How does it relate with us? We have  great young weapons for him at every level. He’s shown in his smarts that he can make an OL look better than they are. And he’s never had a good defense on the other side to relieve any pressure off of him. The cold weather stuff isn’t alaraming to me. I brought this up. I think when you’re practicing in OAK and LV preparing to play in the cold and snow it isn’t preparing you for anything. If he was here and practicing all week in the 30s and at game time it was the 30s he’s prepared. He also should sit the Hackett system. His play is a poor man’s Rodgers kind of. I’m also going to give Hackett the benefit of the doubt that he just isn’t built to be a HC and needs to stay an OC and red zone type guy. I am suspect of him if we don’t get Rodgers. But Carr should work for Hackett. 

[rickyt31]

After seeing QBs like Foles, Eli Manning, and Flacco win SBs performing the way they did, I think we can win it all if we continue building the direction we're heading in. I think some people are over thinking what type of QB we need. If we just add a QB  who is good enough to prevent defenses from loading the box and can win with a good rushing attack and defense, we'll be a contender. Jackson, Rodgers, Carr, Healthy Jimmy G, and potentially Tannehill are good enough to do it. 

Just give us at least 2 years so we can have time to develop another QB or prepare to do what it takes to land our next one. 

[NYJETS52]

1 hour ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Funny thing I’m the only one who points out the flaws that everyone exhibited this past season. I don’t put the blame on any single person because it’s a team sport and it’s never one guy.

See when a Super Bowl winning, multiple time MVP winner stands at the podium of a press conference and states we are trying to do the same things as last year but dont have the pieces in place to do it I listen.  The guy is a HOF QB.  

He's a games I'm sure the thumb was more of an issue than he would admit.  He still threw for 3600 yards 26 TDS and 12 INTS which is a high # ints by his standards but his supporting cast was awful.  If Watson doesn't have a 3 TD game against Dallas does anyone actual know who he is this year?

Look I dont want Rodgers for 2 1sts.  I really dont even want to give up one.  I really think we need to see what the trade is.  If somehow its 2 3rds and a 4th or a 2nd 3rd and 4th it ain't that bad.  Aside from the Raiders who else is really trading for Rodgers?

[xrade]

1 hour ago, NYJETS52 said:

I'm sure the thumb was more of an issue than he would admit.

It is possible. But way too many times a player, any player, who had a down season blames it on an injury. It’s to the point that it is an excuse and not the real reason he had a down season. Perhaps it did affect Rodgers but perhaps not. For the contract that he has and his age and his threat to retire, that is just too much risk.

Again, GB seems to like Love. If his injury affected him as much as you all think, then why was he not rested?  And if his injury was minor enough, then using at as a reason is not really valid. 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, NYJETS52 said:

I'm sure the thumb was more of an issue than he would admit.

It is possible. But way too many times a player, any player, who had a down season blames it on an injury. It’s to the point that it is an excuse and not the real reason he had a down season. Perhaps it did affect Rodgers but perhaps not. For the contract that he has and his age and his threat to retire, that is just too much risk.

Again, GB seems to like Love. If his injury affected him as much as you all think, then why was he not rested?  And if his injury was minor enough, then using at as a reason is not really valid. 

[xrade]

@Bobby816 I will not quote your post but I can agree with almost all of your assessment except the finger thing. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. What really worries me about Rodgers is the contract and what happens in two years. Just too risky for me. I do not want to be a bottle rocket franchise. I want sustained success. 

[JetsandI]

9 minutes ago, xrade said:

It is possible. But way too many times a player, any player, who had a down season blames it on an injury. It’s to the point that it is an excuse and not the real reason he had a down season. Perhaps it did affect Rodgers but perhaps not. For the contract that he has and his age and his threat to retire, that is just too much risk.

Again, GB seems to like Love. If his injury affected him as much as you all think, then why was he not rested?  And if his injury was minor enough, then using at as a reason is not really valid. 

Thumb thing is bs.  Rodgers still made all throws, anyway.  Declining performance is related to new WR corp and himself as well as key injuries of OL.   Packers don't move on with Love at the helm yet.  Awaiting for Rodgers' decision.  Packers are not in panic.

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, Dr.O said:

Rodgers ran out of DMT and Josh McDaniels ruins everything he touches

Excellent breakdown.

[Bobby816]

9 minutes ago, xrade said:

@Bobby816 I will not quote your post but I can agree with almost all of your assessment except the finger thing. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. What really worries me about Rodgers is the contract and what happens in two years. Just too risky for me. I do not want to be a bottle rocket franchise. I want sustained success. 

Yes as I’ve been saying. And I purposely left the way to get them out in that post. I was just talking about their play and situation around them.

 

I totally get the line of thinking of not wanting to give up too much for Rodgers. I’ll listen to that debate all day.

For me I think I’m willing to give up more than most. But that’s just me. When someone says they don’t want to give up a 1st and a 2nd for him. I won’t beat that debate down.

[KingOfNewYork]

How many of these picks would you attribute to the thumb injury?

 

[KingOfNewYork]

Thing is it’s so uncharacteristic of Rodgers to play that way. Is it an anomaly or a sign of decline?

I’ll await a reply about Zach Wilson rather someone just having a discussion about those throws in particular.

Edited February 18, 2023 by KingOfNewYork