2023 Off-season Talk

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

If Hall isn’t better than Jones without Rodgers I’d be disappointed. He has healthy Jonathan Taylor potential when healthy. 
 

I think GW can be great independent of QB play, but a good QB could put him in top tier discussion. 
 

There are plenty of pros and cons. Rodgers could elevate the talent, he can teach Zach to be a pro, he can bi*ch out GW and Moore when they act like divas. Is 1-2 years of that worth more than FRPs?

For me yes. For a franchise starving for playoffs and developing a winning culture? Yes. We can do this while developing Zach in a longer timeframe if we want to still have faith there. But can also draft a mid round guy and develop them. Let’s be real for a second……..

 

Over history how many 1st and 2nd rounders have we drafted that turned out great for us. Screw the picks.

[KimuraGod]

20 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

For me yes. For a franchise starving for playoffs and developing a winning culture? Yes. We can do this while developing Zach in a longer timeframe if we want to still have faith there. But can also draft a mid round guy and develop them. Let’s be real for a second……..

 

Over history how many 1st and 2nd rounders have we drafted that turned out great for us. Screw the picks.

I think we all know JD is a master at trades so although if we did trade for Rodgers it would be expensive but not the all or nothing trade that some people think it will be. 

[CWood21]

9 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

That seems fair for both sides.  You get 2 seconds for a 1 year rental or a 2 and 2024 1st if he plays 2 years.  That mid rounder isn't a deal breaker for me if it makes you happy.  Can't see you getting much more than that.  

That's pretty much what I offered, only the FRP and SRP come later.

[CWood21]

8 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

Why would we have 7-9 years of purgatory? Is it Rodgers or bust for us then?

Outside of Lamar Jackson, I'm not sure there's a more valuable QB available.  LIS, the 49ers (who are a legit Super Bowl contender) have been actively looking to replace Jimmy G.  That should speak volumes about where his future is.  As I've mentioned, I think Derek Carr is probably the most cost-effective of the QBs rumored to be available.  But he's posted 2 years of winning records.  You can blame the coaching staff or the players around him, but at the end of the day he doesn't win a bunch of games.  He's probably someone who is going to need the right supporting cast around him.

8 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

Matt Ryan was awful last year so that again could turn teams off from trading for vets. Actually off the top of my head I don’t think any new vets did well last year. Ryan, Wilson, Wentz all bombed. 

Everyone and their dog knew that Matt Ryan was cooked.  He's had 1 good year since his MVP season, and that was in 2018.  Aaron Rodgers is a year removed from back-to-back MVPs.  If a cooked Matt Ryan can fetch a 3rd round pick, Aaron Rodgers is worth significantly more.

8 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

Ha 3 first round picks now. My god you must be living in cuckoo land. He’s 40 this year why would someone trade three firsts for him? You could get Lamar for that or better yet trade those picks to Chicago for #1 and get Stroud/Young. 

Either you're not reading or I'm not posting it clearly.  Let's go back to the original offer I made:

Jets Receive:
QB Aaron Rodgers
#15

Packers Receive:
#13
'24 FRP (Conditional*)
'25 FRP (Conditional**)

* For the '24 FRP, the pick is conditional on either Aaron Rodgers playing in 70% of the offensive snaps OR the Jets make the playoffs, the Jets would send a FRP to Green Bay.  If both of those tresholds aren't met, the Jets would send a SRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers doesn't play a single snap in 2023, that traded pick wouldn't be dealt and remains with New York.  More on that in a minute.

** For the '25 FRP, the pick would be similar to that of the '24 pick but with less risk.  The pick would convey as a FRP if Rodgers played in 70%+ of the offensive snaps AND the Jets made the Super Bowl, the Jets would send a FRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers plays in 50%+ of the offensive snaps and/or the Jets make the playoffs, the Jets would send a SRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers doesn't play for the Jets in 2024, the Jets wouldn't owe a pick.  Any other scenario would result in New York sending a 3rd round pick to Green Bay.

There's absolutely NO 3rd FRPs being put into this deal unless you're purposely ignoring the fact that Green Bay would be sending their OWN FRP (#15) as part of the deal.  The difference between the 13th pick and the 15th pick is worth the 100th pick, or a very early 4th round pick.  So if you look, it's effectively an early 4th round pick plus a pair of conditional picks (likely a FRP in '24 and a SRP in '25) for Aaron Rodgers assuming he plays 2 years.

8 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

I’m not missing anything mate…you’re not appreciating that if we gave up this years first it’s a decent pick. #13 is nothing to be sniffed at as well you know. To put it in context if the trade went ahead for two first rounders in 2024 & 2025 and we did indeed reach the championship games or better yet a SB the 13th pick holds very similar points on the trade value chart.

That’s why #13 and a mid rounder next year seems fair on all parties imo. 

Why are you missing the fact that the Jets would be receiving the 15th pick as part of the deal?  IMO, if I'm the Jets and I can keep a top 15 pick AND get Aaron Rodgers, I'd jump through hopes to get it done.  If you'd rather give me #13 plus a SRP next year, I'd still be happy to do that deal.

8 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

I’m mentioning Jimmy G because he’s a name floated out there. I have repeatedly stressed that I want Aaron Rodgers as the Jets qb. However I don’t want our pants pulled down on a deal. I think you can understand where I’m coming from. 

There's a stark difference between getting your pants pulled down, and trying to ignore all the risk.  Especially when it's not just a 1 year deal.  You're looking at the deal in the most pessimistic way possible.  You're getting Aaron Rodgers without affecting the '23 season, and the likelihood of giving up MULTIPLE FRPs pretty low.

[CWood21]

8 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

If Hall isn’t better than Jones without Rodgers I’d be disappointed. He has healthy Jonathan Taylor potential when healthy. 

You're either higher on Breece Hall than I could imagine (and that's coming from someone who graded him out as the clear RB1 last year) or you're substantially undervaluing Aaron Jones.

[doumeyer]

As of Saturday morning, the odd's changed now Vagas now has the Jets favorited to get Arron Rodgers. This is crazy now we are counting on the bookies to get us a 39 year QB. When you think we had four great shots to get a QB in the draft and we failed four times that what's crazy.

If we get a slow rainy day in March. I am going to start a new TOPIC WHAT WENT WRONG IN MY LIFE, THAT MADE ME A JET FAN.

 

 

 

[KimuraGod]

4 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

As of Saturday morning, the odd's changed now Vagas now has the Jets favorited to get Arron Rodgers. This is crazy now we are counting on the bookies to get us a 39 year QB. When you think we had four great shots to get a QB in the draft and we failed four times that what's crazy.

If we get a slow rainy day in March. I am going to start a new TOPIC WHAT WENT WRONG IN MY LIFE, THAT MADE ME A JET FAN.

 

 

 

Everyday here is a rainy day!!! Been grateful you live in Florida!!! 
 

I should also add that for the first time in 12 years of being on this forum I will actually been on your time zone during the draft as I’m Florida for nearly a month in April. So you can guarantee we will trade our first rounder away!! 

Edited January 28, 2023 by KimuraGod

[KimuraGod]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Outside of Lamar Jackson, I'm not sure there's a more valuable QB available.  LIS, the 49ers (who are a legit Super Bowl contender) have been actively looking to replace Jimmy G.  That should speak volumes about where his future is.  As I've mentioned, I think Derek Carr is probably the most cost-effective of the QBs rumored to be available.  But he's posted 2 years of winning records.  You can blame the coaching staff or the players around him, but at the end of the day he doesn't win a bunch of games.  He's probably someone who is going to need the right supporting cast around him.

Everyone and their dog knew that Matt Ryan was cooked.  He's had 1 good year since his MVP season, and that was in 2018.  Aaron Rodgers is a year removed from back-to-back MVPs.  If a cooked Matt Ryan can fetch a 3rd round pick, Aaron Rodgers is worth significantly more.

Either you're not reading or I'm not posting it clearly.  Let's go back to the original offer I made:

 

Jets Receive:
QB Aaron Rodgers
#15

Packers Receive:
#13
'24 FRP (Conditional*)
'25 FRP (Conditional**)

* For the '24 FRP, the pick is conditional on either Aaron Rodgers playing in 70% of the offensive snaps OR the Jets make the playoffs, the Jets would send a FRP to Green Bay.  If both of those tresholds aren't met, the Jets would send a SRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers doesn't play a single snap in 2023, that traded pick wouldn't be dealt and remains with New York.  More on that in a minute.

** For the '25 FRP, the pick would be similar to that of the '24 pick but with less risk.  The pick would convey as a FRP if Rodgers played in 70%+ of the offensive snaps AND the Jets made the Super Bowl, the Jets would send a FRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers plays in 50%+ of the offensive snaps and/or the Jets make the playoffs, the Jets would send a SRP to Green Bay.  If Rodgers doesn't play for the Jets in 2024, the Jets wouldn't owe a pick.  Any other scenario would result in New York sending a 3rd round pick to Green Bay.

There's absolutely NO 3rd FRPs being put into this deal unless you're purposely ignoring the fact that Green Bay would be sending their OWN FRP (#15) as part of the deal.  The difference between the 13th pick and the 15th pick is worth the 100th pick, or a very early 4th round pick.  So if you look, it's effectively an early 4th round pick plus a pair of conditional picks (likely a FRP in '24 and a SRP in '25) for Aaron Rodgers assuming he plays 2 years.

Why are you missing the fact that the Jets would be receiving the 15th pick as part of the deal?  IMO, if I'm the Jets and I can keep a top 15 pick AND get Aaron Rodgers, I'd jump through hopes to get it done.  If you'd rather give me #13 plus a SRP next year, I'd still be happy to do that deal.

There's a stark difference between getting your pants pulled down, and trying to ignore all the risk.  Especially when it's not just a 1 year deal.  You're looking at the deal in the most pessimistic way possible.  You're getting Aaron Rodgers without affecting the '23 season, and the likelihood of giving up MULTIPLE FRPs pretty low.

Couldn’t agree more in regards to Lamar. I completely have Lamar and Rodgers far and away ahead of other options such as Carr and Jimmy G.
 

I think for all sense and purposes we are pretty much in agreement it’s just we slightly differ on the compensation cost. Ultimately I think it will be somewhere in the ball park we’ve discussed. 
 

I still think this is postering on Rodgers front but the more smoke there is ultimately fire will be following so the longer this goes on there could be some legitimate truth to it. 

[Bobby816]

JD has pretty much never lost a trade. So I think we should trust him.

[doumeyer]

A week or so ago one of the guys on our board said the O line is 

thin in this year's draft sure looks like he is right. Only Skoronski, Johnson, & Jones are top rated. There is a huge drop off after those three. But you never know.  One thing for sure once again there will be three QB's drafted in the first top ten picks in the draft B Young, CJ Stroud & W.Levis .

Just as a side note, We had worst run blocking team in the NFL last year, and in case you don't know it Hackett is a run first OC. and that is a fact.

[Bobby816]

7 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

A week or so ago one of the guys on our board said the O line is 

thin in this year's draft sure looks like he is right. Only Skoronski, Johnson, & Jones are top rated. There is a huge drop off after those three. But you never know.  One thing for sure once again there will be three QB's drafted in the first top ten picks in the draft B Young, CJ Stroud & W.Levis .

Just as a side note, We had worst run blocking team in the NFL last year, and in case you don't know it Hackett is a run first OC. and that is a fact.

It’s a really good C draft for that 2nd-4th round range.

[Bobby816]

How about really going all in and trading for Hopkins as well. He shouldn’t cost much draft pick wise. But maybe we can rework his deal a bit to fit him under the cap.

 

Imagine having Rodgers at QB with DHop, GW, Moore and WR. Uzo and Conklin at TE. And Hall, Carter and Knight at RB.

 

With our defense and that offense…. How can anyone say that’s not a SB contender.

[KingOfNewYork]

44 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

How about really going all in and trading for Hopkins as well. He shouldn’t cost much draft pick wise. But maybe we can rework his deal a bit to fit him under the cap.

 

Imagine having Rodgers at QB with DHop, GW, Moore and WR. Uzo and Conklin at TE. And Hall, Carter and Knight at RB.

 

With our defense and that offense…. How can anyone say that’s not a SB contender.

Moore would request another trade, Wilson wants to be the guy. 

The hiring of Carter shows the run game will be heavily emphasized as well. 

Wouldn't be enough for all the guys to eat, unfortunately. Definitely a great team but those things implode for a reason. 

[Bobby816]

32 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Moore would request another trade, Wilson wants to be the guy. 

The hiring of Carter shows the run game will be heavily emphasized as well. 

Wouldn't be enough for all the guys to eat, unfortunately. Definitely a great team but those things implode for a reason. 

I’d say winning hides things. But he whined when we were winning this last season. So I get that.

[Greene N White]

I would have to go back and watch film to confirm this but I felt zonovan knight lacked vision. I get the line he was working with was atrocious but I’m not so sure he’s a good running back. Don’t get me wrong I was impressed with his breakout game but obviously there’s a reason he came from nowhere and I think breece/MC compliment each other better anyways. I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s not in the rotation next year.