2023 Off-season Talk

[JetsandI]

39 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Not saying he will for sure get us there just that Jimmy G won't for sure.  Puzzled as to why a 2nd and a conditional 1st in 2024 assuming that is close to the compensation is too much to give up have a shot at a chip.  You can sign the next Jimmy G in 2025 if your heart desires.  There's always another mediocre QB floating around in FA.

Plus after seeing Brock Purdy step in and play at Jimmy's level that isn't a major red flag.  You don't think the system has anything to do with his good play when Mr. irrelevant can carry that team to the NFCC.

Jimmy G should not even be an option.  It's Rodgers, Carr as a fall back plan, or bust

Jimmy G was 5-0 to close out his first year under Shanahan and in 2 years later, 49ers recorded 13-3.  Trey Lance was brought in slowly.  Purdy's magic boomed.  That is something I can't explain.

Jets will run the similar system despite it isn't Shanahan, himself.  Jimmy G can keep offense alive enough to win games.

 

Rodgers didn't record a single 300 passing yard last year without Devante Adams in the similar system as Jets.  291 passing yard was his highest.  It took him some time to get comfortable with Watson and Lazard but he didn't meet Jimmy G's 227 per game.  Imagine he is with new team without Adams.  Surely, we can count on Wilson as equivalent replacement for Adams but they never play together.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by JetsandI

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

Why aren't they contenders?  What are they missing?  Everyone says they're a QB away.  Top 5ish D, plenty of weapons need some work on the OL but nothing major.  If Rodgers is a top 10 QB there is no reason they can't be playing with KC and CIN next year.

Do we have the coaching? Saleh has not proven himself as a quality HC yet. Hackett had one year with a good offense back in Jax, he wasn’t calling plays in Green Bay. How much did he have to do with Rodgers winning those MVPs? We don’t know. He seems to be a low quality hire IMO.

The offensive line needs work. Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton? Max Mitchell? What other WRs are good besides GW? Elijah Moore is a JAG until proven otherwise. Hall is coming off an ACL, Carter was very underwhelming. There’s pieces there but also question marks.

The defense beat up on backup QBs early in the season, and started to show cracks down the stretch. Pretty sure they were ranked dead last in turnovers, which is a strong stat. Whether that was attrition from the offense being so terrible, who knows. Superbowl ready teams don’t look as miserable as the Jets did down the stretch last year.

If Green Bay wants a 2 that conditionally turns into a 1, or maybe a pair of conditional 2nds, something like that then sure. But Douglas has been hot with his early picks since ZW, and I’m not giving those up for a year of 40 year old Rodgers.

[JetsandI]

Just now, GangGreen420 said:

Do we have the coaching? Saleh has not proven himself as a quality HC yet. Hackett had one year with a good offense back in Jax, he wasn’t calling plays in Green Bay. How much did he have to do with Rodgers winning those MVPs? We don’t know. He seems to be a low quality hire IMO.

The offensive line needs work. Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton? Max Mitchell? What other WRs are good besides GW? Elijah Moore is a JAG until proven otherwise. Hall is coming off an ACL, Carter was very underwhelming. There’s pieces there but also question marks.

The defense beat up on backup QBs early in the season, and started to show cracks down the stretch. Pretty sure they were ranked dead last in turnovers, which is a strong stat. Whether that was attrition from the offense being so terrible, who knows. Superbowl ready teams don’t look as miserable as the Jets did down the stretch last year.

If Green Bay wants a 2 that conditionally turns into a 1, or maybe a pair of conditional 2nds, something like that then sure. But Douglas has been hot with his early picks since ZW, and I’m not giving those up for a year of 40 year old Rodgers.

Yeah... Jets need a WHOLE unit to step up.   Alone Rodgers won't fix the current problem.

[Rockice_8]

2 minutes ago, xrade said:

And that is the crux of the debate.  I do not think Rodgers will get us to the SB.  Everyone pushing the Jets "are a QB away" from winning it all is really just fooling themselves.  We won 7 games last year.  Pretty much where most of us thought we would end up.  But let's not pretend that those 7 wins came against top competition.  We beat a bunch of backup QB's.  I am not going to rehash the debate about the quality of our wins.  I, for one, was just glad to get to December and still enjoy watching the games.  My point is that we need more than just a QB.  We need an OL overhaul.  Yes and overhaul.  Don't kid yourself about that either.  Players will have to be cut just to afford the draft class and Rodgers and Q.  Some think those players are "dead weight" and they may be right, but that is still messing with the team dynamics.

I just don't see that adding Rodgers makes us SB contenders.  Playoff bound - sure.  If Rodgers were to get back to playing like Rodgers used to play then I could see a real run in 2024.  But thats two big ifs; Rodgers playing like he used to and Rodgers actually playing in 2024.

Agree to disagree then I see.

You don't need a great OL to win you need a serviceable one so overhaul I think is a strong word.  The OL was fine until we had like 3 guys signed off the street and Breece went down.  No issues the first 7-8 weeks so your stretching with major overhaul.  Cin was a play away from OT in the AFCC game with like 3 backups playing or something liek that.  We played with bottom 5 QB all year so I'm not going to cry about playing against backups.  Also we shut down many of the teams starters we played and held them to below their averages yards/points etc and with just competent QB play could have won way more games.

We have guys coming back AVT who single handedly stabilized our OL I'd also assume Tomlinson will revert more to the mean and Mitchell can improve after a full offseason gaining strength, and Becton is a huge golden ticket if he can stay healthy.  Plus we likely add an OL at 13.  Our OL will be fine, we can structure deals to add even more talent while keeping the key pieces we need.

Sounds like with some minor tweeting we can have a serviceable OL so again I ask why aren't we contenders?  Every team has holes even CIN/KC.  We are no less equipped to be a top team then either one of them with a healthy Rodgers.  Burrow was sacked like 5-6 times and yet they were right there with KC.  

The picks we would lose to have a punchers chance at a ring are inconsequential.  SF just gave up 3 firsts and didn't miss a beat.   

[Rockice_8]

3 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

Do we have the coaching? Saleh has not proven himself as a quality HC yet. Hackett had one year with a good offense back in Jax, he wasn’t calling plays in Green Bay. How much did he have to do with Rodgers winning those MVPs? We don’t know. He seems to be a low quality hire IMO.

The offensive line needs work. Duane Brown and Mekhi Becton? Max Mitchell? What other WRs are good besides GW? Elijah Moore is a JAG until proven otherwise. Hall is coming off an ACL, Carter was very underwhelming. There’s pieces there but also question marks.

The defense beat up on backup QBs early in the season, and started to show cracks down the stretch. Pretty sure they were ranked dead last in turnovers, which is a strong stat. Whether that was attrition from the offense being so terrible, who knows. Superbowl ready teams don’t look as miserable as the Jets did down the stretch last year.

If Green Bay wants a 2 that conditionally turns into a 1, or maybe a pair of conditional 2nds, something like that then sure. But Douglas has been hot with his early picks since ZW, and I’m not giving those up for a year of 40 year old Rodgers.

If that is what you think of the coaches and players then not sure what to tell you.  Guess we're fighting for a top 5 pick the way you talk about them.  Jimmy G sure as hell isn't carrying these losers then so why even sign him.  We should just tank for a QB and build through the draft for another 5 years when we'll be ready.

The Defense was on the field non stop once we couldn't run the ball and our QBs stunk on ice.  If you have issues with the defense and how they played then I'm not sure what your expecting from them.  Its like you want all pros at every spot or you can't win.

I'm just happy JD and Saleh likely will make a play for Rodgers as they should.

[Bobby816]

I give us over a 80% chance at getting Rodgers.

 

I also don’t think we give up a 1st for him. Meaning we can still build through the draft like we’ve been doing. I assume we make some win now moves as well.

[GangGreen420]

12 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

If that is what you think of the coaches and players then not sure what to tell you.  Guess we're fighting for a top 5 pick the way you talk about them.  Jimmy G sure as hell isn't carrying these losers then so why even sign him.  We should just tank for a QB and build through the draft for another 5 years when we'll be ready.

The Defense was on the field non stop once we couldn't run the ball and our QBs stunk on ice.  If you have issues with the defense and how they played then I'm not sure what your expecting from them.  Its like you want all pros at every spot or you can't win.

I'm just happy JD and Saleh likely will make a play for Rodgers as they should.

They are an average team right now, just like their record indicates. No need to be hyperbolic. Do you think we have proven coaching on this staff? If you disagree, that’s fine. But I really don’t think this team is competing with KC/CIN with Rodgers. He’s the best option, but if the cost is for early picks, I’m passing.

 

[Bobby816]

15 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

They are an average team right now, just like their record indicates. No need to be hyperbolic. Do you think we have proven coaching on this staff? If you disagree, that’s fine. But I really don’t think this team is competing with KC/CIN with Rodgers. He’s the best option, but if the cost is for early picks, I’m passing.

 

I really don’t get this logic. BUF is in that tier with those other AFC teams and we beat them with Wilson at QB and should’ve beat them with White at QB.

 

You think adding Rodgers doesn’t make us better? Either you’re HUGELY undervaluing Rodgers or you think our defense and running game were a fluke for 10 weeks.

[Rockice_8]

14 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

They are an average team right now, just like their record indicates. No need to be hyperbolic. Do you think we have proven coaching on this staff? If you disagree, that’s fine. But I really don’t think this team is competing with KC/CIN with Rodgers. He’s the best option, but if the cost is for early picks, I’m passing.

 

Hyperbolic.  Did you read your post.  Poor coaching, OL overhaul, D only good because of QBs played, one good WR.  That literally sounds like a terrible team.

D is going to regress because we're playing starters now, we don't have any money to improve because we have to sign Jimmy G to a big deal, we'll have to lose some players to sign Jimmy who will regress because he's not in Shanny's system anymore and with a poor OC.  OL can't be overhauled in one season so Jimmy is a near lock to get hurt.  Sounds like even with Jimmy G this is a fringe playoff team in your eyes.

So much doom and gloom you have for this team it seems.  

[KimuraGod]

There’s literally no realistic move that we could make with any certainty that could make us a Super Bowl contender.

So all this BS about trading for AR doesn’t make us Super Bowl contenders?!?!!? What the **** could we do that would make you guys think we’ve got a shot then.

Some of you are seriously wanting to build more through the draft. How many years until you think we are ready to compete then? Are you seriously waiting until we draft an actual franchise qb? 

This team is loaded with homegrown top tier talent. Now is the time to act. Trading for Rodgers is a bonafide big boy move and without question a win now trade. However simultaneously we get him working with Zach to see what we can salvage. This is the long term aspect of the trade. 

In the meantime he brings the best out of Gw, Moore, Mims, Conklin, Ruckert etc Not to mention the run game when teams can’t load the box up. Also AVT and Becton would have a massive boost getting right knowing they are blocking a HOF QB.  
 

Im sure the defense wouldn’t mind more rest in between all the three and outs too. 
 

This move if done right is a real franchise setting trade. I have said for years the talent we’ve had is all well and good but we are a team full of zero character and no bottle. Even if AR doesn’t deliver a Super Bowl if he gives us two years of playoff football and setting winning habits this will rub off on our young stars. 
 

In the past we’ve had first round draft picks come in and they are learning and developing from perennial losers. This breeds bad habits and easy excuses. I want a character who will demand more and not let young guys ruin their potential. Would Moore of demanded a trade in the middle of a winning run when we were being branded a top 5 team in the NFL with Rodgers as QB. Absolutely ******* not!!!

Edited January 30, 2023 by KimuraGod

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I really don’t get this logic. BUF is in that tier with those other AFC teams and we beat them with Wilson at QB and should’ve beat them with White at QB.

 

You think adding Rodgers doesn’t make us better? Either you’re HUGELY undervaluing Rodgers or you think our defense and running game were a fluke for 10 weeks.

I’m not saying it doesn’t make us better, I’m saying it doesn’t make us a SUPERBOWL CONTENDER.

Buffalo is not some measuring stick because we beat them once in the regular season when their defense was depleted. Should have beat them with White? How do you figure that? Just because you get a regular season win over Buffalo, doesn’t make you a contender.

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, Rockice_8 said:

Hyperbolic.  Did you read your post.  Poor coaching, OL overhaul, D only good because of QBs played, one good WR.  That literally sounds like a terrible team.

D is going to regress because we're playing starters now, we don't have any money to improve because we have to sign Jimmy G to a big deal, we'll have to lose some players to sign Jimmy who will regress because he's not in Shanny's system anymore and with a poor OC.  OL can't be overhauled in one season so Jimmy is a near lock to get hurt.  Sounds like even with Jimmy G this is a fringe playoff team in your eyes.

So much doom and gloom you have for this team it seems.  

Nope, it makes you a slightly below average team, not a terrible team. Doom and gloom? The team hasn’t made the playoffs in 12 seasons. I trust my gut when it comes to the Jets.

Again, I’m not saying he doesn’t make us better. But he doesn’t make us a Superbowl contender. If you want to believe that, that’s fine. Serve me my crow if they get past the divisional round, I’ll be happily waiting. We can do a friendly wager if your so confident.

[CWood21]

11 hours ago, KimuraGod said:

SF have been so ridiculously unlucky it’s a joke:

•Their franchise qb they traded up for has barely played a snap due to injury.

•Their qb who replaced him (who in his own right is a starter in this league) was then lost for the year. 
 

•Mr Irrelevant comes in and lights it up and they still are a whisker away from a SB appearance. 
 

If it wasn’t for a horrific case of misfortune the 49ers would be in the SB this year. If we were to trade for Rodgers it would for me be a win now move for the franchise but also a win later move as I genuinely feel he’s exactly what we need to give Zach ANY chance of making it here. 

I'm not just talking about this year.  I'm talking about since the 49ers acquired him.  He's been their full-time starting QB since 2017, and they traded 3 FRPs for Trey Lance with the intention of replacing him.  He's only played in 12+ games twice in his career.  He's a walking injury concern with limited upside.

[Bobby816]

29 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

I’m not saying it doesn’t make us better, I’m saying it doesn’t make us a SUPERBOWL CONTENDER.

Buffalo is not some measuring stick because we beat them once in the regular season when their defense was depleted. Should have beat them with White? How do you figure that? Just because you get a regular season win over Buffalo, doesn’t make you a contender.

Don’t have the time right now to break it all down for you…… but we’re 100% a SB contender with Rodgers.

[GangGreen420]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

Don’t have the time right now to break it all down for you…… but we’re 100% a SB contender with Rodgers.

You can believe whatever you choose to believe, I’m not here to stop you.