2023 Offseason Thread

[Superduperman]

5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Thats not at all the way I am looking at it.  I don't love the prospects at 6 outside of Anderson and Carter if the staff feels comfortable.  So if we can move down a few spots and gain a future 1st, I am all for it.

I don't even love Carter. So if Holmes et al agree with us that Anderson is the one elite defensive prospect, and we're well within striking distance, and Arizona is willing to move down, then that is the move imo, no question.

Now that's a lot of ifs, and I trust Holmes' judgment, of course. Obviously getting a future first would be a good move also, but we're not getting that unless the move down is pretty big. What I don't want is to move down for more picks in this draft just because we can get more picks that way.

[Just Want A Title]

2 hours ago, Superduperman said:

My opinion is, the Lions have filled needs so well in free agency, and have accumulated so much good depth, that we can give up some picks. We can go from 6 to 3 without giving up #18, and I'd absolutely include some future non-first round picks as well.

The rebuild is over and the time is now. It's time to pull the trigger on an aggressive move for a superstar piece to put them over the top. The Lions have also shown they agree with this by their free agency moves.

I don't see it like that.  We have signed a number of good players but most of them are on contracts that are no more than 3-year deals.  We signed Cam Sutton and CJ Gardener-Johnson because our CB room had 1 legit starter in Jerry Jacobs and no other long-term answers. 

I think the Lions would be better served by continuing to add young talent via the draft so they don't have to make so many splash signings in free agency.  I think that is true in a draft like this one that is deep in CB and EDGE defenders.

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, Superduperman said:

I don't even love Carter. So if Holmes et al agree with us that Anderson is the one elite defensive prospect, and we're well within striking distance, and Arizona is willing to move down, then that is the move imo, no question.

Now that's a lot of ifs, and I trust Holmes' judgment, of course. Obviously getting a future first would be a good move also, but we're not getting that unless the move down is pretty big. What I don't want is to move down for more picks in this draft just because we can get more picks that way.

I would be ok moving up for Anderson, but not giving a ton to do it.  We still have a lot of 1 year deals so need bodies to get some experience before next year.  

I would move down 2-4 spots just for picks in this draft.  Say the draft has 4 QBs go ahead of us and Will Anderson.  Say Arizona likes Anderson too much and they wont move down.  If we are on the clock at 6 and have an offer on the table with say Philly wants to offer us 10, 62, and 94 for 6 or maybe 6 and 152, would you do it or who would you pick?  At 10 we would still get one of Carter, Wilson, Gonzalez, Witherspoon, Skoronski, etc who I think are the tier 2 non-QBs. or do you feel one of those guys, or someone else, is so elite we have to take them and not risk missing out on them for an extra late 2nd?  I personally am good with any of them so would gladly take the extra picks and drop down. 

[LionArkie]

I think Anderson is the only prospect in this draft one could say is elite. IF you could give up 6 and Minnesota’s second that would be about as much I’d give up for him. Outside of that, I believe the better play is to move down. I’d rather have 10-18 with more capital next year. I don’t want to just win next year, I want to be set up to win for the next decade. We’ve earned the right to demand that after 50 years of hell.

[Sllim Pickens]

12 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I think Anderson is the only prospect in this draft one could say is elite. IF you could give up 6 and Minnesota’s second that would be about as much I’d give up for him. Outside of that, I believe the better play is to move down. I’d rather have 10-18 with more capital next year. I don’t want to just win next year, I want to be set up to win for the next decade. We’ve earned the right to demand that after 50 years of hell.

Yup.  So many short term deals here that building more assets for future years is always smarter.  Or even just more players on rookie deals so you dont have to pay backups and rotational guys 4 or 5 M helps. 

[Louis Friend]

49 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

I don't even love Carter. So if Holmes et al agree with us that Anderson is the one elite defensive prospect, and we're well within striking distance, and Arizona is willing to move down, then that is the move imo, no question.

Now that's a lot of ifs, and I trust Holmes' judgment, of course. Obviously getting a future first would be a good move also, but we're not getting that unless the move down is pretty big. What I don't want is to move down for more picks in this draft just because we can get more picks that way.

But I love Carter and don’t agree that Anderson is the one elite prospect. I surely wouldn’t move up to take him. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, Louis Friend said:

But I love Carter and don’t agree that Anderson is the one elite prospect. I surely wouldn’t move up to take him. 

I used to love Carter but I can't ignore the red flags.  Mind set and maturity is such an important thing in the draft.  So many guys dominate college on pure athleticism but once they have to put in the work and be mentally strong they fade away.  Carter has that vibe.  The accident was a big flag.  The gaining 9 lbs in two weeks while preparing for your biggest job interview is a huge flag IMO.  Sure people fluctuate but his 9 lbs was obviously from not working out or preparing since he couldn't finish the drills.  I wouldn't hate taking him, but I am nervous he is a flame out like so many we have seen before

[Louis Friend]

2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I used to love Carter but I can't ignore the red flags.  Mind set and maturity is such an important thing in the draft.  So many guys dominate college on pure athleticism but once they have to put in the work and be mentally strong they fade away.  Carter has that vibe.  The accident was a big flag.  The gaining 9 lbs in two weeks while preparing for your biggest job interview is a huge flag IMO.  Sure people fluctuate but his 9 lbs was obviously from not working out or preparing since he couldn't finish the drills.  I wouldn't hate taking him, but I am nervous he is a flame out like so many we have seen before

And that’s fine. I’ve had doubts about off the field as well. But he’s an elite defensive prospect. 

[LionArkie]

1 minute ago, Louis Friend said:

And that’s fine. I’ve had doubts about off the field as well. But he’s an elite defensive prospect. 

Talent wise I absolutely agree. The only reason I didn’t say he was elite is because of the question marks around him. He is going to make someone thankful they took him or curse his name. Someone else compared him to Fairley. I think that is a very fair comparison.

Honestly, I don’t know if there is an elite prospect in this draft. But like I said, I think when you consider everything, Anderson is the only one an argument could be made for.

[Sllim Pickens]

2 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

And that’s fine. I’ve had doubts about off the field as well. But he’s an elite defensive prospect. 

Yeah, and Kyle Pitts was an elite TE.  And Jeff Okudah was the best CB prospect we had seen in years. And Johnny Manziel was amazing in college.  Production in college is fun and all, but not being able to be in the game mentally or be in it 100% in the offseason is a good way to fall into obscurity and not meet your potential.  We have to do a lot of digging and research if we think we might take Carter.  His mentality has that Johnny Manziel/Jamarcus Russell vibe. 

[Louis Friend]

43 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Yeah, and Kyle Pitts was an elite TE.  And Jeff Okudah was the best CB prospect we had seen in years. And Johnny Manziel was amazing in college.  Production in college is fun and all, but not being able to be in the game mentally or be in it 100% in the offseason is a good way to fall into obscurity and not meet your potential.  We have to do a lot of digging and research if we think we might take Carter.  His mentality has that Johnny Manziel/Jamarcus Russell vibe. 

Eh, Pitts and Okudah have played well when healthy. I don’t think mentality is their issue. 

[Lions017]

11 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Eh, Pitts and Okudah have played well when healthy. I don’t think mentality is their issue. 

I actually think that a lot of Okudah's issues are mental. I think that he is in his own head. He always just looks so frustrated when he makes a mistake, which is not a mentality you can have in the NFL. You're going to make mistakes and you can't let it ruin the next play too. 

Pitts is a straight up beast - he just needs them to throw him the ball. 

[Sllim Pickens]

9 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Eh, Pitts and Okudah have played well when healthy. I don’t think mentality is their issue. 

They have played ok and may not be mentality but just the point that looking elite in college doesnt mean you look elite in the pros.  You have to focus and work hard and be mentally strong and mature to succeed, especially on a team led by DC.  And there are plenty of other examples where they looked elite in college and it seems to be mentality like Nick Fairley, Robert Nkemdiche, Jadeveon Clowney etc etc.   Its rare you see guys with red flags like this who slip down boards end up being a stud.  

[Superduperman]

18 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Eh, Pitts and Okudah have played well when healthy. I don’t think mentality is their issue. 

Getting benched two weeks in a row during a playoff push isn't playing well.

[Just Want A Title]

39 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Eh, Pitts and Okudah have played well when healthy. I don’t think mentality is their issue. 

How can anyone say Jeff Okudah played well?  He got his first extended run of playing time this year.  He got a lot of safety help earlier in the year and still was just OK.  His play indicates he thinks he can get by with his athleticism and not play with a high level of technique or attention to detail.

I would love to say Jeff Okudah has become at least an above average CB and is trending in the right direction.  I can't say that.  His play fell off a cliff towards the end of the year and had Mike Hughes ahead of him on the depth chart at the end of the year.   He has all of the physical tools to be successful but hasn't put it together.  The aggressive upgrades to our CBs says two things:

1.  Jeff Okudah isn't the big man on campus anymore and will have to compete just to hold a roster spot.

2.  The Lions aren't going to wait around hoping Jeff Okudah "figures it out".  They are prepared to move on quickly if his performance doesn't improve.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Just Want A Title