Random Bears Thoughts - Offseason Thread

[WindyCity]

On 4/4/2023 at 12:04 AM, AZBearsFan said:

FWIW, Khalil Herbert has played in 6 games with more than 30 offensive snaps in his 2 year career to this point. In those 6 games his combined rushing stat line is 117/578/3 (4.94 ypc), and now he’s our presumed RB1. 

Except he can't play on passing downs.

[WindyCity]

56 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

It's offseason.  We are going to be great.

 

Been watching crap OL play for the better part of 15 years...At this point I won't believe they can put a good OL together at a HOF banquet.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

Been watching crap OL play for the better part of 15 years...At this point I won't believe they can put a good OL together at a HOF banquet.

Well we haven't drafted an offensive tackle in first two rounds of draft since 2011 - Gabe Carimi

We drafted ostensibly a center in Daniels in 2nd in 2018 and quickly moved him to guard and a guard in Kyle Long in first in 2013.

Other than that no O linemen at all in first two rounds of draft.   But to ignore Tackle and Center high in draft for so long is insane.  

Back in day when Bears had a great O line that led to superbowl and a lot of wins:

1981:  Keith Van Horn drafted no. 11 overall 

1983: Jimbo Covert no. 6 overall.

It takes real investment.

 

[AZBearsFan]

26 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Except he can't play on passing downs.

But Homer can. His ability in pass pro is one of his biggest selling points. Foreman isn’t much of a receiver and I admittedly don’t know anything about his ability as a pass protector. Also, Herbert’s biggest issues on passing downs are with blocking, not receiving. One would think he can and should improve there. 

[dll2000]

My fix for trenches in 2023 - just ran this mock in a simulator.

9.

Paris Johnson Jr.

OT Ohio State

53.

Will McDonald IV

EDGE Iowa State

61.

Tuli Tuipulotu

EDGE USC

64.

Joe Tippmann

OC Wisconsin

Then draft a big NT as well.  We need another big 1/0.  

Ideally, I would like AA from NW to play 3 to pair with an edge over Tuli having already taken McDonald - but he was taken.  

But we need some combination of top 3 OT, a good Edge, one of top 3 centers, a 3 tech, a big NT.

 

[AZBearsFan]

15 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

My fix for trenches in 2023 - just ran this mock in a simulator.

9.

Paris Johnson Jr.

OT Ohio State

53.

Will McDonald IV

EDGE Iowa State

61.

Tuli Tuipulotu

EDGE USC

64.

Joe Tippmann

OC Wisconsin

Then draft a big NT as well.  We need another big 1/0.  

Ideally, I would like AA from NW to play 3 to pair with an edge over Tuli having already taken McDonald - but he was taken.  

But we need some combination of top 3 OT, a good Edge, one of top 3 centers, a 3 tech, a big NT.

 

This is usually about where I end up too. Sometimes I end up with a CB in there instead of the 2nd DL in R2. This path seems to really line up our needs with player grades though. 

[WindyCity]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

But Homer can. His ability in pass pro is one of his biggest selling points. Foreman isn’t much of a receiver and I admittedly don’t know anything about his ability as a pass protector. Also, Herbert’s biggest issues on passing downs are with blocking, not receiving. One would think he can and should improve there. 

It will always limit his role and his snaps.

Otherwise he is a massive tell on what you are doing.

My guess is all 3 play about the same number of snaps.

[WindyCity]

3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Well we haven't drafted an offensive tackle in first two rounds of draft since 2011 - Gabe Carimi

We drafted ostensibly a center in Daniels in 2nd in 2018 and quickly moved him to guard and a guard in Kyle Long in first in 2013.

Other than that no O linemen at all in first two rounds of draft.   But to ignore Tackle and Center high in draft for so long is insane.  

Back in day when Bears had a great O line that led to superbowl and a lot of wins:

1981:  Keith Van Horn drafted no. 11 overall 

1983: Jimbo Covert no. 6 overall.

It takes real investment.

 

I agree... we can't seem to avoid guys named Ryan who ignore the OT position.

[dll2000]

3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Well we haven't drafted an offensive tackle in first two rounds of draft since 2011 - Gabe Carimi

We drafted ostensibly a center in Daniels in 2nd in 2018 and quickly moved him to guard and a guard in Kyle Long in first in 2013.

Other than that no O linemen at all in first two rounds of draft.   But to ignore Tackle and Center high in draft for so long is insane.  

Back in day when Bears had a great O line that led to superbowl and a lot of wins:

1981:  Keith Van Horn drafted no. 11 overall 

1983: Jimbo Covert no. 6 overall.

It takes real investment.

 

And Jenkins in 2021.

But that adds to my point.  A lot of times when you draft a top OT and they don't work out they still often make pretty good guards. 

Ignoring OT in draft for so long was negligence.  

 

[dll2000]

5 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I agree... we can't seem to avoid guys named Ryan who ignore the OT position.

Poles has only had 1 draft.

 

[WindyCity]

35 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Poles has only had 1 draft.

 

And 2 free agencies... we will see what happens in this draft.

Hard to see a 2nd round pick coming in and fixing our issues at OT. We will see if he attacks the position.

[dll2000]

2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

And 2 free agencies... we will see what happens in this draft.

Hard to see a 2nd round pick coming in and fixing our issues at OT. We will see if he attacks the position.

True.

Everyone assumed with most cap space he was walking out of first wave with a FA OT.   Especially when Payne got tagged.

People applaud and say it is good that he didn't spend too much on FA OT who were overpriced, but I think that is because we are still in honeymoon phase. 

If he doesn't hit on an OT in this draft a lot of those same people are going to be upset midseason about FA in hindsight.

It's great Braxton Jones started 16 games as a 5th round rookie, but he still wasn't a very good pass blocker last year.  He needs to take a step forward and that doesn't always happen.

On other hand Braxton seems to have some want to in him.   He is a smart guy who wants to be good and is working at his craft.

Good news is center position looks pretty good in draft.  I hope he isn't 100% counting on Whitehair/Patrick.  People seem to be okay with one of them play center.   I don't have a lot of confidence in them.

We need to draft a good OT and C in this draft IMO.  Easier said than done.  

 

[beardown3231]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

My fix for trenches in 2023 - just ran this mock in a simulator.

9.

Paris Johnson Jr.

OT Ohio State

53.

Will McDonald IV

EDGE Iowa State

61.

Tuli Tuipulotu

EDGE USC

64.

Joe Tippmann

OC Wisconsin

Then draft a big NT as well.  We need another big 1/0.  

Ideally, I would like AA from NW to play 3 to pair with an edge over Tuli having already taken McDonald - but he was taken.  

But we need some combination of top 3 OT, a good Edge, one of top 3 centers, a 3 tech, a big NT.

 

I'd probably cream myself but McDonald is going to go a lot higher than most people think, imo. He's a fit in KC at 31 to be honest

[WindyCity]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

True.

Everyone assumed with most cap space he was walking out of first wave with a FA OT.   Especially when Payne got tagged.

People applaud and say it is good that he didn't spend too much on FA OT who were overpriced, but I think that is because we are still in honeymoon phase. 

If he doesn't hit on an OT in this draft a lot of those same people are going to be upset midseason about FA in hindsight.

It's great Braxton Jones started 16 games as a 5th round rookie, but he still wasn't a very good pass blocker last year.  He needs to take a step forward and that doesn't always happen.

On other hand Braxton seems to have some want to in him.   He is a smart guy who wants to be good and is working at his craft.

Good news is center position looks pretty good in draft.  I hope he isn't 100% counting on Whitehair/Patrick.  People seem to be okay with one of them play center.   I don't have a lot of confidence in them.

We need to draft a good OT and C in this draft IMO.  Easier said than done.  

 

If the OL sucks again… Poles deserves to get flame thrown. He had the resources to do whatever he wanted this offseason.

[TankWilliams]

37 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

If the OL sucks again… Poles deserves to get flame thrown. He had the resources to do whatever he wanted this offseason.

He clearly has the mentality that overpaying in free agency is not worth the short term benefit.  Either way, I think you are being a little hard on Poles, and he's got lots of flexibility still.  This close to the draft, we aren't going to see a lot of signings.  Everyone is biding their time until they see how the draft goes.  Not to mention that I think having Nate Davis in at guard and having Whitehair at C is a pretty significant upgrade over last years interior, even if Whitehair isn't great he's a huge upgrade over Mustipher.  There definitely needs to be more development there, but I don't think spending big money on guys like McGlinchey who really aren't that good is a great idea.