What Should We Do With Daron Payne?

[offbyone]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Mathis had 9 sacks as a senior at Alabama, he must have bene doing something right. I don’t think he has the upside of Payne & it’s hard to say any young DT will come in and be the tactician that Jon Allen was as a young player & he’s even better now too.

Sweat may not get the sacks - those come more when Chase plays & attention is drawn away from Sweat - but Sweat was amongst the league leaders in QB pressures & he had 28 QB hits which was tied for 4th in the league. With Chase back next year hopefully some of those “Almosts” turn into sacks for Sweat. 
 

I also disagree that Sweat hasn’t taken over games. In 2020 at the Cowboys he dominated & had that unit return for a TD & last year vs the Titans he was unblockable.

He already has Payne and Allen drawing attention away, now he also needs Chase Young to get a sack? 

He was like 20th in qb pressures.  Whooptie do.

So you think Sweat is special and elite?  If you don't answer yes to that, then I don't get this discussion.  We are team who desperately needs elite players.  Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to keep the super young one we have?  

[aceinthehouse]

Personally, I really want to keep all 4 on the D-line. All 1st round picks. They have a chemistry together. They're really the heart of this defense.

I'm actually more concerned with Chase Young's future here, than I am Payne's.

I think you do what you can to keep Payne whether it's a long-term contract or a Franchise tag to keep him here another year.

If we didn't have the cap to do it, that would be a different story. But we do.

Let me just say this....

I would rather sign Payne to a big money deal & have to roll with Sam Howell for money/cap reasons....

Than let Payne go for nothing & sign Aaron Rodgers to a big money deal.

How many times are we gonna go down the road of vet QB from another team, only to see it end in failure.

Let's run with the guys we've drafted.

 

[MKnight82]

10 hours ago, offbyone said:

He already has Payne and Allen drawing attention away, now he also needs Chase Young to get a sack? 

He was like 20th in qb pressures.  Whooptie do.

So you think Sweat is special and elite?  If you don't answer yes to that, then I don't get this discussion.  We are team who desperately needs elite players.  Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to keep the super young one we have?  

Well first he’s only been elite for 1 season (where he was highly motivated to get a contract extension). Two, allocation of that much cap space to one position can hamper the rest of our roster.  The two of them will be the equivalent of paying a Patrick Mahomes type QB. Third, if we can get a first round pick for him we may be able to shift having an elite DT to an elite player at another position of need.  Fourth, I don’t think Mathis will have the ability that Payne does but I do think he will be able to occupy blockers to free up our other pass rushers and play the run well.  

[offbyone]

2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

Well first he’s only been elite for 1 season (where he was highly motivated to get a contract extension). Two, allocation of that much cap space to one position can hamper the rest of our roster.  The two of them will be the equivalent of paying a Patrick Mahomes type QB. Third, if we can get a first round pick for him we may be able to shift having an elite DT to an elite player at another position of need.  Fourth, I don’t think Mathis will have the ability that Payne does but I do think he will be able to occupy blockers to free up our other pass rushers and play the run well.  

What do you think we would get for Sweat if we trade him this offseason?

[lavar703]

10 minutes ago, offbyone said:

What do you think we would get for Sweat if we trade him this offseason?

A third if we were lucky. 

[MKnight82]

21 minutes ago, offbyone said:

What do you think we would get for Sweat if we trade him this offseason?

Maybe a 3rd.  

[IHatesnyder]

Payne needs to stay 

[offbyone]

5 hours ago, lavar703 said:

A third if we were lucky. 

5 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

Maybe a 3rd.  

So basically everyone agrees that he is an average DE cause a 3rd round pick isn't much.  

The follow up question is how much do you think he will cost us to extend?  Cause I am guessing he will cost us 17-20M a year...about 2.5M/year less than Payne will get.

 

 

 

[lavar703]

14 minutes ago, offbyone said:

So basically everyone agrees that he is an average DE cause a 3rd round pick isn't much.  

The follow up question is how much do you think he will cost us to extend?  Cause I am guessing he will cost us 17-20M a year...about 2.5M/year less than Payne will get.

 

 

 

I think the potential of what just happened with Payne is there for Sweat. What he did against the Titans is what he has the potential to do all the time. Whether or not he puts it together, that I don’t know? 

[MKnight82]

20 minutes ago, offbyone said:

So basically everyone agrees that he is an average DE cause a 3rd round pick isn't much.  

The follow up question is how much do you think he will cost us to extend?  Cause I am guessing he will cost us 17-20M a year...about 2.5M/year less than Payne will get.

 

 

 

I think it will be a lot less than that

[turtle28]

30 minutes ago, offbyone said:

So basically everyone agrees that he is an average DE cause a 3rd round pick isn't much.  

The follow up question is how much do you think he will cost us to extend?  Cause I am guessing he will cost us 17-20M a year...about 2.5M/year less than Payne will get.

 

 

 

That depends on what Sweat does this year. 
 

Rivera eff’d up the Payne situation by not extending him last year or trading him while retaining Ioannidis. Now look at us, we’re in the position I said we’d be in last year, arguing over whether to make him the 2nd highest paid defensive tackle in the NFL, letting him walk, playing the stupid franchise again with one of our best players  or, giving him the non-exclusive tag & trading him, matching an offer he gets or letting him leave and take the 2 first round picks. 

[offbyone]

21 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I think it will be a lot less than that

If true and Sweat is less than 15 million a year, then I don't let this impact the decision making at all surrounding Payne.  That is William Jackson money, who cares, Rivera certainly is happy to burn it

I also don't see why we even care about Sweat in this conversation when he is not considered an elite player, despite playing behind multiple elite players. 

I understand your point of view here and how the difference in cap hit + a pick seems like a smart long term play.  I just think we have learned time and time again that elite players change games and are very hard to come by and it is even harder to find home grown ones.  

[MKnight82]

18 minutes ago, offbyone said:

If true and Sweat is less than 15 million a year, then I don't let this impact the decision making at all surrounding Payne.  That is William Jackson money, who cares, Rivera certainly is happy to burn it

I also don't see why we even care about Sweat in this conversation when he is not considered an elite player, despite playing behind multiple elite players. 

I understand your point of view here and how the difference in cap hit + a pick seems like a smart long term play.  I just think we have learned time and time again that elite players change games and are very hard to come by and it is even harder to find home grown ones.  

You’re assuming Payne will continue to be an elite player though.  He’s only been that for one year, during a contract season.

[offbyone]

3 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

You’re assuming Payne will continue to be an elite player though.  He’s only been that for one year, during a contract season.

I would disagree.  He was good last year and also elite the year before.  I remember many games he was the biggest impact player on the defensive side of the field in 2020.  

Last year he was solid but certainly not elite.  But last year the entire defense crapped the bed.

But if you don't think he is elite and do think we can get a 1st round pick on a franchise tagged DT, then I get your stance.

[turtle28]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:51 AM, offbyone said:

He already has Payne and Allen drawing attention away, now he also needs Chase Young to get a sack? 

He was like 20th in qb pressures.  Whooptie do.

So you think Sweat is special and elite?  If you don't answer yes to that, then I don't get this discussion.  We are team who desperately needs elite players.  Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to keep the super young one we have?  

It’s different. When the opposing DE pushes the OT/QB off his mark and towards your side of the field as a DE it helps your sack total. In 2021 Sweat had 5 sacks while Chase only had 4 sacks while Chase had just 1.5 sacks the first half of last season - if you don’t count the 2 Chase has taken away on bogus roughing the passer penalties - in part bc of the pressure Chase was providing on the left side.