Red Dead Redemption II Mafia - Game Over - Pinkertons and Dutch Wins!

[wolfeyestrk]

I have nothing really to add to the convo either you believe my invest or you don't i came back with a red letter name when I invested orca with my night move. when i was on the chopping block day one i gave up my role to not get killed, i invested malf because of his weird western talk and was corroborated. so either im scum which means if orca pops town you lynch me, easy enough. or orca pops scum(which he will) and im confirmed twice over now. will probably get hit during the night, unless who ever protected me last night does it again(less likely) and you all have a decent avenue going forward

[Whicker]

Okay so a couple thoughts. 

I see that the fact that Orca is the claimed main character as one of the main arguments for him being town. Perhaps it’s bias, but this doesn’t resonate with me a ton. the last two big theme games I’ve run (Mass Effect and Witcher) which I know you all played in, didn’t have the main character in the game. No one really ever brought this up as strange IIRC. The Main Character in video games, especially open world ones, kind of exist on a different plane than other characters. Although, I chose this as it was absolutely essential for the MC to exist throughout my story, and it doesn’t quite seem like Butters is weaving that intricate of a story, at least day to day. It’s possible that Arthur appears in his ending and therefore he wouldn’t put him in the game although that does seem a bit strange. 

Assuming this follows the game (which we know it doesn’t 100% already with Uncle dying), Colm O’Driscoll wouldn’t be a Pinkerton. He’s the leader of a rival gang and would be just as much of an enemy of the Pinkertons as us. The role name screams SK to me. It seems to me like this would make it less likely to be a fake as if mafia were fake red lettering Orca they’d name one of their own. Arthur kind of makes sense as an SK cover role. 

Orca’s role doesn’t sound that OP upon reflection. He’s more or less an Inventor which is a normal role. The protecting John every night really isn’t super powerful on its own, but I imagine it has to have some counterplay to not break the game in some scenarios. The three things that hang me up the most on the claim are that 1. The condition that John survives a lynch. 2. The fact that Orca still hasn’t answered if this protection is an actual move that can be blocked/watched/tracked or if it’s a static effect that just exists. 3. Ostensibly no one else in the game a role with any complexity at all beyond even/odd. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Whicker

[MWil23]

15 minutes ago, wolfeyestrk said:

I have nothing really to add to the convo either you believe my invest or you don't i came back with a red letter name when I invested orca with my night move. when i was on the chopping block day one i gave up my role to not get killed, i invested malf because of his weird western talk and was corroborated. so either im scum which means if orca pops town you lynch me, easy enough. or orca pops scum(which he will) and im confirmed twice over now. will probably get hit during the night, unless who ever protected me last night does it again(less likely) and you all have a decent avenue going forward

Wait, you were protected? How do you know? This is a new claim. Given we've had an even night protector flip, I don't believe you.

[Dome]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Yeah, I'm still also trying to reconcile the N1 AND N2 no kills too...especially coupled with his claim on being a hit attempt, which I actually DO believe.

I think I take the most issue with his subsequent role claim but I also take major issue with Wolf's N1 claim on Malf after a hint that left him alive and pushed the vote to Forge 1.0.

Maybe orca is Arthur who can’t be lynched, and he’s just toyin with us 

[MWil23]

Just now, Dome said:

Maybe orca is Arthur who can’t be lynched, and he’s just toyin with us 

Arthur being a Town role? Along with being a variant that's bulletproof?

I could actually see Wolf fake bussing Orca who is a GF variant while "clearing" Malf to earn Townie points on both ends.

[Dome]

17 minutes ago, Whicker said:

Okay so a couple thoughts. 

I see that the fact that Orca is the claimed main character as one of the main arguments for him being town. Perhaps it’s bias, but this doesn’t resonate with me a ton. the last two big theme games I’ve run (Mass Effect and Witcher) which I know you all played in, didn’t have the main character in the game. No one really ever brought this up as strange IIRC. The Main Character in video games, especially open world ones, kind of exist on a different plane than other characters. Although, I chose this as it was absolutely essential for the MC to exist throughout my story, and it doesn’t quite seem like Butters is weaving that intricate of a story, at least day to day. It’s possible that Arthur appears in his ending and therefore he wouldn’t put him in the game although that does seem a bit strange. 

Assuming this follows the game (which we know it doesn’t 100% already with Uncle dying), Colm O’Driscoll wouldn’t be a Pinkerton. He’s the leader of a rival gang and would be just as much of an enemy of the Pinkertons as us. The role name screams SK to me. It seems to me like this would make it less likely to be a fake as if mafia were fake red lettering Orca they’d name one of their own. Arthur kind of makes sense as an SK cover role. 

Orca’s role doesn’t sound that OP upon reflection. He’s more or less an Inventor which is a normal role. The protecting John every night really isn’t super powerful on its own, but I imagine it has to have some counterplay to not break the game in some scenarios. The three things that hang me up the most on the claim are that 1. The condition that John survives a lynch. 2. The fact that Orca still hasn’t answered if this protection is an actual move that can be blocked/watched/tracked or if it’s a static effect that just exists. 3. Ostensibly no one else in the game a role with any complexity at all beyond even/odd. 

Well said pardner 

[Dome]

Just now, MWil23 said:

Arthur being a Town role? Along with being a variant that's bulletproof?

I could actually see Wolf fake bussing Orca who is a GF variant while "clearing" Malf to earn Townie points on both ends.

I had my tongue pressed up against the inside of my cheek as I made that little comment, probably hard to see round this here campfire 

[MWil23]

19 minutes ago, Whicker said:

Okay so a couple thoughts. 

I see that the fact that Orca is the claimed main character as one of the main arguments for him being town. Perhaps it’s bias, but this doesn’t resonate with me a ton. the last two big theme games I’ve run (Mass Effect and Witcher) which I know you all played in, didn’t have the main character in the game. No one really ever brought this up as strange IIRC. The Main Character in video games, especially open world ones, kind of exist on a different plane than other characters. Although, I chose this as it was absolutely essential for the MC to exist throughout my story, and it doesn’t quite seem like Butters is weaving that intricate of a story, at least day to day. It’s possible that Arthur appears in his ending and therefore he wouldn’t put him in the game although that does seem a bit strange. 

Assuming this follows the game (which we know it doesn’t 100% already with Uncle dying), Colm O’Driscoll wouldn’t be a Pinkerton. He’s the leader of a rival gang and would be just as much of an enemy of the Pinkertons as us. The role name screams SK to me. It seems to me like this would make it less likely to be a fake as if mafia were fake red lettering Orca they’d name one of their own. Arthur kind of makes sense as an SK cover role. 

Orca’s role doesn’t sound that OP upon reflection. He’s more or less an Inventor which is a normal role. The protecting John every night really isn’t super powerful on its own, but I imagine it has to have some counterplay to not break the game in some scenarios. The three things that hang me up the most on the claim are that 1. The condition that John survives a lynch. 2. The fact that Orca still hasn’t answered if this protection is an actual move that can be blocked/watched/tracked or if it’s a static effect that just exists. 3. Ostensibly no one else in the game a role with any complexity at all beyond even/odd. 

We all know scum loves to hunt Serial Killers too.

[bcb1213]

just an FYI, the forum is corrently broke for me on my cell.  Luckily the work computer can get on for now, but don't expect much from me tonight unless that gets straightened out

[Whicker]

1 minute ago, bcb1213 said:

just an FYI, the forum is corrently broke for me on my cell.  Luckily the work computer can get on for now, but don't expect much from me tonight unless that gets straightened out

Scum bcb 

[Whicker]

Wolf 

[rackcs]

@The Orca trust is good and all, but I would like you to go ahead and share exactly what you meant when you posted about good and bad pinkertons

[Whicker]

So 16 players is probably 3? With an SK. Although there haven’t been any kills so would there be an SK? Nacho was even night protect so then somehow scum protected Wolf? It seems super strange for there to be 3 protects in one night. Unless Orca’s was random? Or all from 3 different factions. Or Orca is bulletproof SK. 

How did we get to no kills N1 then? Is there an odd night protect, an even night protect, a scum protect, and a body proof SK/guardian Angel/Inventor who can get protects? And they all hit? 

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, Whicker said:

So 16 players is probably 3? With an SK. Although there haven’t been any kills so would there be an SK? Nacho was even night protect so then somehow scum protected Wolf? It seems super strange for there to be 3 protects in one night. Unless Orca’s was random? Or all from 3 different factions. Or Orca is bulletproof SK. 

How did we get to no kills N1 then? Is there an odd night protect, an even night protect, a scum protect, and a body proof SK/guardian Angel/Inventor who can get protects? And they all hit? 

I take issue with Wolf claiming he knew he was protected. Orca at least gave an explanation.

Wolf

[Daboyle]

Vote Count:

6 - The Orca (wolfeyestrk, bcb1213, Malfatron, Dome, skywindO2, JoshstraDaymus)
6 - wolfeyestrk (The Orca, [Pickle Rick], Llamalover, racks, Whicker, MWil23)
1 - skywindO2 (Forge)
1 - Malfatron (gopherwrestler)