RUMOR: Vance Joseph to be let go?

[AnAngryAmerican]

17 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

If they land David Shaw, I will fly back to Denver and buy you a nigh's worth of beers. 

 

You could think, then, that maybe Jim Harbough would be available...if we are going off speculations. 

One, that would cost you a small fortune, haha. Two, I don't see Elway and Harbaugh being able to co-exist. After Harbaugh's experience in San Fran I think he only returns to the NFL if he is given full control. 

[BroncoBruin]

No experienced coach or any coach currently in a good spot will want to come to Denver to be Elway's patsy. John has made this the worst head coaching job in the NFL.

[BroncoBruin]

Heckert runs pro personnel doesn't he? I'd keep him, as outside of horrible AFCW right tackles we've done well poaching guys from other teams. Matt Russell has got to go though. 

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I don't know of a veteran coach worth his salt that will be available next year.  So, to me, Toub would make sense for the reason stated and s few other reasons...like he has coached with established coaching staffs and he is older.  I know McVay is having a good year in LA, but, that is not the norm.  

What about Matt Naggy I mean the chiefs put up 34 points when he called played last weak.  He's having Alex Smith put up a career year. Poaching him would make kc worse imo.

[thebestever6]

Todd Haley is another good option imo. I think he did a decent job in kc the first time around. And I think he's learned alot.

I think getting kc to a 10 and 6 record is good work with a below average qb. He's tough on players I think thats what they need tough but fair not a blow hard.

[paul-mac]

19 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Todd Haley is another good option imo. I think he did a decent job in kc the first time around. And I think he's learned alot.

I think getting kc to a 10 and 6 record is good work with a below average qb. He's tough on players I think thats what they need tough but fair not a blow hard.

 

Haley and Mike Smith are absolutely the stand out candidates IMO

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

No experienced coach or any coach currently in a good spot will want to come to Denver to be Elway's patsy. John has made this the worst head coaching job in the NFL.

That is something of an over-reaction. Elway has made his mistakes, without question, and the turnover in head coaches is certainly not desirable. However, let's take a look at things more closely. 

When people say "the Broncos have had 6 coaches in the last 9 years," that is factually correct. But, that's not entirely all about Elway.

Shanahan and Mac were both Bowlen/Ellis fires.

Studesville was an interim coach for four games.

Fox had a good run, and was exactly what the team needed in 2011 after the McDisaster, but the team didn't produce to the level that Elway felt it could be and should be. Does anyone around here really miss John Fox or think Elway made a mistake firing him?

Gary Kubiak was a good hire who steered the ship as well as any coach in the team's history in 2015. Paul Klee said Kubiak in 2015 was the greatest single-season head coaching job he's ever seen. I won't go that far, but Kubiak (and Wade, for sure) did a magnificent job that Super Bowl year. Last year the team didn't quite have it, Kubiak had some health problems and opted to step away from a 100 hour/week job. The fact that he returned to the organization as a FO guy, working closely with Elway, should put to bed the rumors that the two of them had some kind of a falling out and/or that Elway is an absolute tyrant to work for. I don't imagine Elway is easy to work for, but I also don't think Belichick, Newsome, Coughlin, etc are either.

The mistake Elway made with Vance is the same he's made in the draft. He made up his mind early and wouldn't budge. Both Kyle and Toub had better resumes, more experience and better pedigrees. But Elway wanted Vance from the get-go because he impressed in a DC interview two years prior. That was the mistake and by firing him Elway would be seen recognizing it, admitting it and will tell the candidates we interview precisely as such. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

Just now, paul-mac said:

Haley and Mike Smith are absolutely the stand out candidates IMO

I think I could get on board with both. But going from a total players coach like Vance to someone as abrasive as Todd Haley would be a big shift for the players. That alone would be worth the price of admission. 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think I could get on board with both. But going from a total players coach like Vance to someone as abrasive as Todd Haley would be a big shift for the players. That alone would be worth the price of admission. 

I always like Todd Haley thought he got dealt a crappy hand in kc to be honest getting fired mid season going 5 and 8.

I think hed be good for young guys and veterans. Elway wants his team kicking and screaming it seems like the perfect hire imo.

Mike Smith I'm just  a no on the guy has more questions about him than a rookie head coach would. He literally rode the coat tails of Matt Ryan and Mike Turner for that quick turn around in Atl.

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think I could get on board with both. But going from a total players coach like Vance to someone as abrasive as Todd Haley would be a big shift for the players. That alone would be worth the price of admission. 

A big shift it necessary we need someone to hold players accountable ans get the best out if them.

Vance doesn't do any of that. I asked a question on here that no one can answer. Since VJ has been hired what facet has improved other than run d which was a,direct result of the peko signing.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

What about Matt Naggy I mean the chiefs put up 34 points when he called played last weak.  He's having Alex Smith put up a career year. Poaching him would make kc worse imo.

See... this is where coaching hire go wrong. When we give to much credit to a coach who is set up for success. Nagy has Alex Smith, a smart, athletic QB who doesn't make mistakes. Kelce, Hunt and Hill as 3 of the most dynamic weapons a coach could ask for. 

Can he replicate his success with a lacking Denver talent base? Is he HC material, or just a solid play calling OC? It's risky.... see Vance Jospeh riding a roster of talent into a HC gig.

[thebestever6]

24 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

See... this is where coaching hire go wrong. When we give to much credit to a coach who is set up for success. Nagy has Alex Smith, a smart, athletic QB who doesn't make mistakes. Kelce, Hunt and Hill as 3 of the most dynamic weapons a coach could ask for. 

Can he replicate his success with a lacking Denver talent base? Is he HC material, or just a solid play calling OC? It's risky.... see Vance Jospeh riding a roster of talent into a HC gig.

This  is way different. Vance Joseph is a figure head he lets everyone else do their job and sits back a micro manages thing at best.

Obviously, you need to aquire talent but a couple of questions. Alex Smith is smart but has been average at best for weeks until Naggy called plays is that a coincidence? And I love Tyreek hill he is explosive as heck a game breaker, but I don't think he is a number 1 wr. He's a slot guy in the perfect world.

And with your thought process Mcvay wouldn't of gotten his  shot, Dan Quinn wouldnt of got his shot because of how talented Seattle's d was, tomlin what was he before  the hc of the steelers, Shanny had tremendous talent in Atl what do we write him off?

I'm just saying we have to look under every nook and cranny. 

You've been posting more on these boards lately than you have since the Tebow year. What is it to you just enjoy critiquing on all ways we will screw up? Or do you wanna  see us conpetitive again?

[thebestever6]

22 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

See... this is where coaching hire go wrong. When we give to much credit to a coach who is set up for success. Nagy has Alex Smith, a smart, athletic QB who doesn't make mistakes. Kelce, Hunt and Hill as 3 of the most dynamic weapons a coach could ask for. 

Can he replicate his success with a lacking Denver talent base? Is he HC material, or just a solid play calling OC? It's risky.... see Vance Jospeh riding a roster of talent into a HC gig.

And Vance Joesph did not ride the coat tails of a talented roster to a hc gig. He was average at best for the DC in Miami. People that justified him thought he has some hidden power leader of men only Elway could see.

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

A big shift it necessary we need someone to hold players accountable ans get the best out if them.

Vance doesn't do any of that. I asked a question on here that no one can answer. Since VJ has been hired what facet has improved other than run d which was a,direct result of the peko signing.

I agree a shift is necessary. And history has shown that guys like Haley - middle-aged, prior HC experience, coached under coaches from different schemes/philosophies and for multiple organizations - usually do well in their second stint as a HC. 

Vance hasn’t improved anything. Not one damn thing. And I would say Peko, but also Gotsis development and improved play by Todd Davis, helped the run defense, it’s not only Peko. If you look at Vance in games or listen to him in press conferences, he just looks/sounds totally over his head. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Can he replicate his success with a lacking Denver talent base? Is he HC material, or just a solid play calling OC? It's risky.... see Vance Jospeh riding a roster of talent into a HC gig.

I agree Nagy would be a major roll of the dice. But Vance didn’t “ride a roster of talent into a HC gig,” he impressed Elway in an interview for DC two years ago and has a personal relationship with Matt Russell that dates back to their time together at CU. His coaching job in one year as Miami DC was far from impressive. It was closer to lackluster. 

Did Vance even interview for any other HC jobs last year? I can’t remember. 

Kyle Shanahan should have been the hire. Kyle as HC and Wade as DC and this team’s record could well be transposed right now.

Despite problems on the OL and at QB this team has a talent base that is at least good enough to be 8-8.

When a team under-performs it’s talent stock, that’s on coaching. Conversely, I always feel the COY award should go to the coach who did the most with the least, sans a 2007 Patriots-like situation.