O-heavy vs D-heavy Mock

[3rivers]

33 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

But we had no idea it was going to be that high...we were expecting somewhere in the lower 40s...certainly not, 32.

they traded to a bad team, so I expected top 5 so 32+5 so 37 range max.  Well, 31+5    this year but thats what I saw.  Good move by the FO to trade to the bears instead of a playoff team 

hopefully that pick will help out .  Claypool had problems staying on the field too, so it was the right trade for us anyways. I didn't like it at first, but then after sing who we traded to and what we got, that helped.  

 

 

 

 

 

[MOSteelers56]

As for the drafts, I like the second one a lot better. Ringo could be great. I really like Benton. I think he’ll be a much better pro. I like his run stuffing ability now and I’m intrigued by his pass rush potential. I love Nolan Smith too. I think he can be a real asset. I don’t know if he’s an EDGE guy in the league, but I’d love him anyway. Wright is my favorite, but if he’s playing LG and it’s that late in the draft I’d be pretty happy. I don’t know much about the Tennesse LB. I’m intrigued by the Mizzou EDGE prospect. I can’t remember his name, but I think he’s going to be a steal. I’ve heard decent things about Mustipher. 

[Ward4HOF]

So, how about I add the following trade compensation in favor of the Steelers??  Will these changes make it seem more 'fair' for the Steelers?  

OFFENSE - Trade WR Diontae Johnson + 7.243 to Tennessee Titans for picks 5.149 + 6.186 ... EDIT: ...  + Swap Titans 2024 3rd for Steelers 2024 5th

DEFENSE - Trade Edge Alex Highsmith (while his stock is hot) to Houston Texans for pick 3.65 ... EDIT: ...  + 2024 4th  (Better pick between Texans and Browns Traded 4th)

Also...any one-for-one drafted prospect swaps between two mocks that would make one of them even better?

Thanks everyone for the input; always nice to receive constructive criticism/feedback!!

[43M]

1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said:

So, how about I add the following trade compensation in favor of the Steelers??  Will these changes make it seem more 'fair' for the Steelers?  

OFFENSE - Trade WR Diontae Johnson + 7.243 to Tennessee Titans for picks 5.149 + 6.186 ... EDIT: ...  + Swap Titans 2024 3rd for Steelers 2024 5th

DEFENSE - Trade Edge Alex Highsmith (while his stock is hot) to Houston Texans for pick 3.65 ... EDIT: ...  + 2024 4th  (Better pick between Texans and Browns Traded 4th)

Also...any one-for-one drafted prospect swaps between two mocks that would make one of them even better?

Thanks everyone for the input; always nice to receive constructive criticism/feedback!!

Better value, but I think the chances of either one getting traded are very low, especially Dionte.   

We trade Highsmith, we dont have a single remotely decent starting  caliber OLB on the roster.  Hell, the guys we have now are glorified training camp bodies, and we cant necessarily count on a rookie to come in an play at high level.   And even if he did, we would still have zero depth, which was a big problem last year.

What I see happening is...Highsmith stays put in 23 UNLESS we get offered first round value.   That would be too good to pass up.   Since I don't see that happening...

We draft an OLB in rd 3 or 4 and Highsmith stays.    

If new OLB plays at a high level and/or shows enough promise in 23, Highsmith very likely walks if he has a good year.   If he doesnt have another good year, I think there is a chance we could re-sign him to a reasonable 2 or 3 year deal.

If new OLB player turns out to be Bruce Davis 2.0, I think Highsmith gets either resigned to a long term deal that makes him easily cuttable around the time Kenny MIGHT be up for a massive contract OR franchise tagged in 24.

Id put the chances of us trading him somewhere between 5% & 15%....and the chances of trading DJ (in 23) is less than 5%.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by 43M

[Ward4HOF]

1 hour ago, 43M said:

Better value, but I think the chances of either one getting traded are very low, especially Dionte.   

We trade Highsmith, we dont have a single remotely decent starting  caliber OLB on the roster.  Hell, the guys we have now are glorified training camp bodies, and we cant necessarily count on a rookie to come in an play at high level.   And even if he did, we would still have zero depth, which was a big problem last year.

What I see happening is...Highsmith stays put in 23 UNLESS we get offered first round value.   That would be too good to pass up.   Since I don't see that happening...

We draft an OLB in rd 3 or 4 and Highsmith stays.    

If new OLB plays at a high level and/or shows enough promise in 23, Highsmith very likely walks if he has a good year.   If he doesnt have another good year, I think there is a chance we could re-sign him to a reasonable 2 or 3 year deal.

If new OLB player turns out to be Bruce Davis 2.0, I think Highsmith gets either resigned to a long term deal that makes him easily cuttable around the time Kenny MIGHT be up for a massive contract OR franchise tagged in 24.

Id put the chances of us trading him somewhere between 5% & 15%....and the chances of trading DJ (in 23) is less than 5%.

 

 

Okay, so keeping the DJ trade, in Mock #1, even if the chances are low, but I'll concede on the Highsmith trade.  Removed it, and the player originally selected, then changed our 3rd Rd pick to a prospect that will still be available (the other was a stretch before at 3.65...no way still there at 3.80...)

And also, just for you 43M, I changed the QB selection in the 7th, since you appeared to 'throw-up a little in your mouth' at the sight of having Clifford there.  We still need to bring in a QB this draft, but don't want to bring in one too early to create any type of potential QB controversary, but one who can at least make all the throws.

 

DEFENSE -  EDIT: NO TRADE

1.17 - Kelee Ringo, DB - This would be a prototypical Tomlin pick--Big School, Under 21YO, Ht/Wt/Spd prospect at a position of need.

2.32 - Keeanu Benton, NT/5T - Versatile lineman that can play any DL spot.  Obvious interest from Tomlin.

2.49 - Nolan Smith, ILB/Edge - Another versatile defender.  Can play him where he fits best.

3.80 - Steve Avila, OC/OG/OT - Versatile Lineman - Played RT, OC, and LG for TCU.  Strong inside run blocker/inside pass protection.

4.120 - Trey Palmer, WR - Legit 4.3 speed, with good size at 6' and 193lbs.

7.236 - PJ Mustipher, DL - At 6'4" 320, big, powerful, and supposedly violent IDL.

7.243 - Tanner Morgan, QB - Decent arm, with excellent placement skills.  Athletic enough, and can throw on the move.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ward4HOF

[SteelersFan2333]

I’m perfectly fine with them drafting an OLB in the first 3 rounds, no matter what the plan is with Highsmith. If TJ or Highsmith gets hurt we have absolutely nothing behind them, and we saw the difference for the whole team when TJ was out. Having a skilled guy allows you some rotation keeping everyone fresher, protects against injuries, and gives you flexibility for the future. Many are good with drafting a WR high, but denouncing an early OLB, what’s the difference there??? I know I’ll hear about all the holes we have blah blah blah, but if YOUR GUY is there and he’s an OLB grab him. 

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, SteelersFan2333 said:

I’m perfectly fine with them drafting an OLB in the first 3 rounds, no matter what the plan is with Highsmith. If TJ or Highsmith gets hurt we have absolutely nothing behind them, and we saw the difference for the whole team when TJ was out. Having a skilled guy allows you some rotation keeping everyone fresher, protects against injuries, and gives you flexibility for the future. Many are good with drafting a WR high, but denouncing an early OLB, what’s the difference there??? I know I’ll hear about all the holes we have blah blah blah, but if YOUR GUY is there and he’s an OLB grab him. 

I rather just sign a low cost vet.  I think the issue with it was we brought in Reed alone who wasn’t good against the run.  If we could do something like bring in a better run stopping EDGE guy, and bring in an ok pass rushing guy, and you are smart about rotating them your depth is fine.  You can even spell TJ on a few obvious run downs that way.

It’s one area where I wish that Tomlin/Austin were better from a coaching standpoint.  They rotate guys for a series rather than play by play, especially on the front 7.

[43M]

19 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I rather just sign a low cost vet.  I think the issue with it was we brought in Reed alone who wasn’t good against the run.  If we could do something like bring in a better run stopping EDGE guy, and bring in an ok pass rushing guy, and you are smart about rotating them your depth is fine.  You can even spell TJ on a few obvious run downs that way.

It’s one area where I wish that Tomlin/Austin were better from a coaching standpoint.  They rotate guys for a series rather than play by play, especially on the front 7.

We haven't had luck with OLB free agents.    Even the one I was really excited about didn't pan out (Ingram).   Underperformed then cried his way out.

Reed was useless, and I don't see any low cost FAs in 23 that will move the needle much more than he did.

Like I said, if we keep Sutton, Edmunds and sign a good starting ILB, I wouldnt be opposed to pass rusher in rd 3 or 4.    Still dont want one any earlier than that...this year, anyway.

 

[Ward4HOF]

33 minutes ago, SteelersFan2333 said:

I’m perfectly fine with them drafting an OLB in the first 3 rounds, no matter what the plan is with Highsmith. If TJ or Highsmith gets hurt we have absolutely nothing behind them, and we saw the difference for the whole team when TJ was out. Having a skilled guy allows you some rotation keeping everyone fresher, protects against injuries, and gives you flexibility for the future. Many are good with drafting a WR high, but denouncing an early OLB, what’s the difference there??? I know I’ll hear about all the holes we have blah blah blah, but if YOUR GUY is there and he’s an OLB grab him. 

Which is why I LOVE Nolan Smith for us.  He's a little light for the edge, but add 10 lbs, which his frame can accomodate, and he'll be just fine.  But he also has the skillset to fit our ILB, if needed, or if it turns out that 3-4OLB isn't the best fit, but IMO, I think it is.  Just read his profile...

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Nolan-Smith-LB-Georgia

Maybe not a ton of sacks, but plenty of hurries...

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, 43M said:

We haven't had luck with OLB free agents.    Even the one I was really excited about didn't pan out (Ingram).   Underperformed then cried his way out.

Reed was useless, and I don't see any low cost FAs in 23 that will move the needle much more than he did.

Like I said, if we keep Sutton, Edmunds and sign a good starting ILB, I wouldnt be opposed to pass rusher in rd 3 or 4.    Still dont want one any earlier than that...this year, anyway.

 

That’s why I think split duties would be better. We’ve gone too much for guys who can do it all and then failed to rotate them into successful spots. Kaden Elliss from NO would make a nice run down edge backup while Rasheem Green would be a nice pass down backup. Neither are studs, would cost about $4mil AAV, but need to be used properly. 

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, SteelersFan2333 said:

I’m perfectly fine with them drafting an OLB in the first 3 rounds, no matter what the plan is with Highsmith. If TJ or Highsmith gets hurt we have absolutely nothing behind them, and we saw the difference for the whole team when TJ was out. Having a skilled guy allows you some rotation keeping everyone fresher, protects against injuries, and gives you flexibility for the future. Many are good with drafting a WR high, but denouncing an early OLB, what’s the difference there??? I know I’ll hear about all the holes we have blah blah blah, but if YOUR GUY is there and he’s an OLB grab him. 

The two big ones for me are K. White and A. Carter.  White will prolly take the #32.  Carter might be there at #49.  If 1st 3 pix are (in no particular order) CB/Edge/DL than Pace or another Sideline to Sideline ILB had better be the next priority 

[3rivers]

9 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

The two big ones for me are K. White and A. Carter.  White will prolly take the #32.  Carter might be there at #49.  If 1st 3 pix are (in no particular order) CB/Edge/DL than Pace or another Sideline to Sideline ILB had better be the next priority 

what about signing Wagner and drafting Pappoe or Henley later on.  I would like UFA  R. Evans as well but lets not get carried away here, I mean ILB has been a weakness for 5 years,  no need to make it a strength in one offseason.  Robinson could learn from a few legit pro's, mainly Wagner of course. Having a player like that will help the players around him, something this team has lacked at ILB now for 5 years and counting ever since Shazier got hurt. 

 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

DEFENSE -  EDIT: NO TRADE

1.17 - Kelee Ringo, DB - This would be a prototypical Tomlin pick--Big School, Under 21YO, Ht/Wt/Spd prospect at a position of need.

2.32 - Keeanu Benton, NT/5T - Versatile lineman that can play any DL spot.  Obvious interest from Tomlin.

2.49 - Nolan Smith, ILB/Edge - Another versatile defender.  Can play him where he fits best.

3.80 - Steve Avila, OC/OG/OT - Versatile Lineman - Played RT, OC, and LG for TCU.  Strong inside run blocker/inside pass protection.

4.120 - Trey Palmer, WR - Legit 4.3 speed, with good size at 6' and 193lbs.

7.236 - PJ Mustipher, DL - At 6'4" 320, big, powerful, and supposedly violent IDL.

7.243 - Tanner Morgan, QB - Decent arm, with excellent placement skills.  Athletic enough, and can throw on the move.

what about trading down a bit from 17 , then moving up a bit with 32 so there are 2 RD1 picks and the 5th year options  as well

In that scenario, if Ringo is gone,  go with Clark Phillips who could also play slot and is a proven ballhawk - versatilty and ballhawk will always help

Sign Wagner and replace Smith with OT Wright.  I like the Avila pick, versatile OL are always good to have.

The QB pick could be an understudy, but they need to trade mitch first of course. Imagine if they keep mitch? What a waste of a season, a reason Wagner might not sign here IMO as mitch occupies that capspace.  

 

[warfelg]

I kinda like this concept @Ward4HOF so I hope you don't mind me piggybacking off your concept here to throw up two of my own offense heavy/defensive heavy draft.

Offensive Heavy:

17 traded to LAC for 21, 158, 2024 2nd

21 - Jaxon Smith-Njigba WR OSU

32 - Anton Harrison OT Okalhoma

49 - Steve Avila OG TCU

80 - Sam LaPorta TE Iowa

120 - Tre-Vius Hodges-Tomlinson CB TCU

158 - Dorian Williams LB Tulane

236 - Clayton Tune QB Houston

243 - Jalen Wayne WR South Alabama

Defensive Heavy:

17 - Brian Branch S/CB Alabama

32 - Traded to BUF with 243 for 59, 139, 2024 2nd, 2024 4th

49 - Andre Carter II Edge Army

59 - Garrett Williams CB Syracuse

80 - Keeanu Benton DL Wisconsin

120 - Tre'Vius Hodges-Tomlinson CB TCU

139 - Ivan Pace Jr LB Cincinnati

236 - Stenson Bennett QB Georgia

[43M]

14 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I kinda like this concept @Ward4HOF so I hope you don't mind me piggybacking off your concept here to throw up two of my own offense heavy/defensive heavy draft.

Offensive Heavy:

17 traded to LAC for 21, 158, 2024 2nd

21 - Jaxon Smith-Njigba WR OSU

32 - Anton Harrison OT Okalhoma

49 - Steve Avila OG TCU

80 - Sam LaPorta TE Iowa

120 - Tre-Vius Hodges-Tomlinson CB TCU

158 - Dorian Williams LB Tulane

236 - Clayton Tune QB Houston

243 - Jalen Wayne WR South Alabama

Defensive Heavy:

17 - Brian Branch S/CB Alabama

32 - Traded to BUF with 243 for 59, 139, 2024 2nd, 2024 4th

49 - Andre Carter II Edge Army

59 - Garrett Williams CB Syracuse

80 - Keeanu Benton DL Wisconsin

120 - Tre'Vius Hodges-Tomlinson CB TCU

139 - Ivan Pace Jr LB Cincinnati

236 - Stenson Bennett QB Georgia

First one Id projectile vomit.  Under no circumstances could I be happy about that.

2nd one is highly dependent on what happens with our resignings and free agency.