StLunatic88 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 10 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: @StLunatic88 @kgarrett12486 @MOSteelers56 Not sure where to post this, but do you think there’s enough interest to get a Mizzou Tigers football thread going? Yea, Im always down to talk Tigers, but no one every really posted in the one I had set up on the old site. I think theres less than a handful of us on FF who pay attention to the Tigers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 A few interesting tweets worth sharing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: Cited his foot issue as reason for steal drop off in 2018. Same issue that David Ortiz dealt with which derailed him for 18 months as a hitter. I was worried this would be the case, as we still owe him $50m over the next 3 and he has a full NTC. They are going to try and force him into the lineup because of he money owed, I just hope it doesnt cost us too many games in April that we pretend dont matter as much. The one thing that getting Goldschmidt does, is continue to give the diversity to this Lineup that was missing 2 years ago, which does make the idea of a healthy and productive Fowler (even at an underwhelming rate) back in the lineup appealing, and we no longer need to try to force the pop of O'Neill into the lineup. If they give them both a fair shot in spring training, and just play the best player, Im fine with that of Fowler truly beats Tyler out. But if we get into justifying the money by forcing Fowler into the lineup, then making this Move for Goldschmidt doest really show that commitment to winning like we think it does right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttmikeb Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Haven't been around on here lately, but had to jump back in after the Goldschmidt trade. Like others, I was pleasantly surprised by how (relatively) little we had to give up. And, while I'm obviously hoping we can lock him up long-term, it's nice to know there's a comp pick waiting if he decides to leave. Win-win. I wouldn't say Goldy makes us an instant WS contender, but he definitely makes us significantly better. His bat is an obvious upgrade, and he's got some really good numbers against NL Central teams. Plus, adding his defense at 1B will be a HUGE boost to our team defense. Regarding Harper, he'd certainly look great in this lineup, but I don't see it happening. From his side, I think he craves a bigger market & more exposure. From the team's side, I think they'll explore what it would cost, but I think there will be at least one other team who's willing to pay more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I'm ok with the potential Fowler brings. I like his on base abilities. I hope, like others have mentioned, that he isn't just given the role. If he goes back to the 2016 Fowler, it'll be a big boost to the lineup. I think O'Neil is probably better suited being the 4th OF this year and taking a starting spot the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 If Ozuna is healthy and Dexter is healthy and both can get closer to their 2017 vs. 2018, this could be a scary lineup... 1. Carpenter 2. Fowler 3. Goldschmidt 4. Ozuna 5. DeJong 6. Molina 7. Bader 8. Wong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 34 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: If Ozuna is healthy and Dexter is healthy and both can get closer to their 2017 vs. 2018, this could be a scary lineup... 1. Carpenter 2. Fowler 3. Goldschmidt 4. Ozuna 5. DeJong 6. Molina 7. Bader 8. Wong I'm dreaming of that bottom of the order speed being driven in by Carp and the big bats. That's a really fun lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: If Ozuna is healthy and Dexter is healthy and both can get closer to their 2017 vs. 2018, this could be a scary lineup... 1. Carpenter 2. Fowler 3. Goldschmidt 4. Ozuna 5. DeJong 6. Molina 7. Bader 8. Wong I do like Molina in the 6 spot more than the 5, BUt I also think it would take a lot for Fowler (even if he beats out ONeill) to earn that 2 hole. I think flipping DeJong into #2, sliding Yadi to #5 and have Dexter start of the Speed at #6 is a much better lineup right now. IF Fowler is suddenly back to why we signed him, then sure let him follow Carp, but anything short of that he needs to work his way up the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 5 hours ago, tttmikeb said: Regarding Harper, he'd certainly look great in this lineup, but I don't see it happening. From his side, I think he craves a bigger market & more exposure. From the team's side, I think they'll explore what it would cost, but I think there will be at least one other team who's willing to pay more. Ive seen this alot, not just here, and I think its a pretty outdated train of thought. First of all, Harper has been in DC his whole career, and theres only a handful of markets bigger than that. And when it really comes down to it, only 3 (NY, LA, Chicago) are noticeably bigger. (SF Dallas and Philly are all about on par as DC). Plus you dont need to be in a Big Market to be Marketable, we have learned that with superstars becoming huge in all other sports. Baseball just isnt as marketable as the NBA or the NFL. If anything, Harper needs to be part of a Historic Franchise to cement himself in their legacy, and there for the legacy of Baseball. Which the Cardinals do fall into that small group (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, As? Tigers? Giants?) Not to mention, Harper is a Baseball Kid, he knows what it means to put on one of those all time unis, and to play in front a great fan base. Im not saying we are the front runners or anything (were not) but i think we are much more in the conversation than any of the Media, or people around here apparently, will give us credit for. If we wanted to fork over the $400m that its going to take, we would atleast have a seat at the final table for him. It all comes down to, do we want to shell out that cash while also trying to resign Goldschmidt now, to have a chance to pitch him. And dont say we dont have the money, because we do. Especially with some big contracts coming off the books after next year; Over $50m (with the options for Carp, Gyorko, Grgerson, and the projected Arb numbers for Ozuna and Wacha). $30-40m depending on picking up Wongs option after 2020, and then atleast the $16.5m of Fowlers in 2021 (and maybe $30 total with Wongs option) We have the financial flexibility to have both Goldschmidt and Harper if we wanted to, especially with all the young cost controlled talent for the next 3-6 years on the way up, and the likelyhood that wherever Harper signs, he will be opting out before the end of his contract that he signs this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 5 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I do like Molina in the 6 spot more than the 5, BUt I also think it would take a lot for Fowler (even if he beats out ONeill) to earn that 2 hole. I think flipping DeJong into #2, sliding Yadi to #5 and have Dexter start of the Speed at #6 is a much better lineup right now. IF Fowler is suddenly back to why we signed him, then sure let him follow Carp, but anything short of that he needs to work his way up the lineup. While I'd love to see fastball hitters like Bader and DeJong hit in front of Goldy and get those pitches, I think the lineup I had is probably most likely. DGoold mirrored the same sentiment today, saying this would likely be how it would shakeout barring any other roster changes... FO loves high OBP guys at the top and Bader/DeJong haven't been that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttmikeb Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 16 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Ive seen this alot, not just here, and I think its a pretty outdated train of thought. First of all, Harper has been in DC his whole career, and theres only a handful of markets bigger than that. And when it really comes down to it, only 3 (NY, LA, Chicago) are noticeably bigger. (SF Dallas and Philly are all about on par as DC). Plus you dont need to be in a Big Market to be Marketable, we have learned that with superstars becoming huge in all other sports. Baseball just isnt as marketable as the NBA or the NFL. If anything, Harper needs to be part of a Historic Franchise to cement himself in their legacy, and there for the legacy of Baseball. Which the Cardinals do fall into that small group (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, As? Tigers? Giants?) Not to mention, Harper is a Baseball Kid, he knows what it means to put on one of those all time unis, and to play in front a great fan base. Im not saying we are the front runners or anything (were not) but i think we are much more in the conversation than any of the Media, or people around here apparently, will give us credit for. If we wanted to fork over the $400m that its going to take, we would atleast have a seat at the final table for him. It all comes down to, do we want to shell out that cash while also trying to resign Goldschmidt now, to have a chance to pitch him. And dont say we dont have the money, because we do. Especially with some big contracts coming off the books after next year; Over $50m (with the options for Carp, Gyorko, Grgerson, and the projected Arb numbers for Ozuna and Wacha). $30-40m depending on picking up Wongs option after 2020, and then atleast the $16.5m of Fowlers in 2021 (and maybe $30 total with Wongs option) We have the financial flexibility to have both Goldschmidt and Harper if we wanted to, especially with all the young cost controlled talent for the next 3-6 years on the way up, and the likelyhood that wherever Harper signs, he will be opting out before the end of his contract that he signs this offseason. I actually agree with much of what you said here, but let me clarify a couple of my comments: I didn't mean that he wanted a bigger market than where he is now. I meant he wants a bigger market than STL. I get that that's a very generalized statement. I'm not saying that he wouldn't want to play in STL at all. I just feel like a bigger market would be more appealing to him. Regarding money, you're right...we absolutely have the money to be able to do this if the FO has the desire. And I do believe they have interest. They'd be crazy not to! I just think that there will be one or more other teams who are willing to pony up more cash for Harper than the Cards are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, tttmikeb said: egarding money, you're right...we absolutely have the money to be able to do this if the FO has the desire. And I do believe they have interest. They'd be crazy not to! I just think that there will be one or more other teams who are willing to pony up more cash for Harper than the Cards are. Im in agreement with you, a Franchise more desperate than the Cardinals (i.e. the Phillies) will throw all the money at Harper to try and convince him to come. But that money is coming from whoever he signs with. I would think he would be more worried about winning, seeing as he has never won a single playoff series in his entire career... Now the Cards aren't in the best shape recently to be preaching playoff success, but if I was Harper, potential playoff success would be more important than the difference in $40m and $41.5m per year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Goold was saying today he doesn't think we're going to make it to final table for Harper. Says we'll do our due diligence and if the market shrunk, we could jump in truly. He mentioned that the FO loves Nolan Arrenado and he thinks this will be our superstar FA target next offseason. Thinks we can go after Arenado and sign either Goldy or Ozuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Goold was saying today he doesn't think we're going to make it to final table for Harper. Says we'll do our due diligence and if the market shrunk, we could jump in truly. He mentioned that the FO loves Nolan Arrenado and he thinks this will be our superstar FA target next offseason. Thinks we can go after Arenado and sign either Goldy or Ozuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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