holt_bruce81 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Wong is becoming the hitter we've all been waiting on him to become. A slash line of .311/.398/.447/.845 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 So I know they'll never do it, but should OH be DFA'd? He has one effective pitch. His Fastball. Everything is is drastically worse than it was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 8 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: So I know they'll never do it, but should OH be DFA'd? He has one effective pitch. His Fastball. Everything is is drastically worse than it was last year. Yes, yes he should. I feel like every time him or Rosenthal are in the game, you can kiss whatever lead we have goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 13 hours ago, CWood21 said: Then I guess the next question is, who do you propose we target via trade? I think the obvious answer is a guy we have looked into before; Josh Donaldson. He is a guy who will likely be somewhat available this offseaon (to what level is debatable) and with only one season of control left, I think the deal could be done without giving up either Reyes or Kelly. Just adding him completely changes the complexion to this lineup. And most importantly he is a guy who i think we would want to lock up long term, and would get that done once he gets here. But I wouldnt stop with that. I think there are Free Agent bats who could make the same type of impact. There are a few other 3B if we couldnt swing Donaldson, that change what we have in the lineup. And if you cant we could go get a J.D. Martinez. But assuming we could make that Donaldson deal, I think signing a guy we should have traded for this year in Jay Bruce would be that second move to sure up the lineup. So my plan would be; Trade for Josh Donaldson [for a Luke Weaver centered package] - sign him long term Sign Jay Bruce to a 2/3 year contract Trade away Matt Carpenter, Jedd Gyorko, & Randall Grichuck to start to recoup/rebuild the farm system Tell Yadi that what is best for the team (not his dainty ego) is him to start playing some 1B This allows to still have some roster flexibility, but does so with pieces that will compliment each other, and not be so redundant that we fall into the massive skids we have seen this year. We would have 3 MIF options (Wong, DeJong, Diaz) and the best guys play with the other being the utility man, likely Diaz right now. Signing Bruce also lets you shuffle the lineup, as he could be the other half of the 1B platoon with Yadi. Which also lets you play both Piscotty and Pham enough to justify keeping both on the roster. Platoon Breakdown=> 1B: Bruce 100g/Yadi 62g, C: Yadi 90g/Kelly 72g, OF: Fowler 150g/Bruce 40g/Piscotty 145g/Pham 145g, DH: Bruce 10g Yadi - 152 games Bruce - 150 games Fowler - 150 games Piscotty - 145 games Pham - 145 games Kelly - 72 games Obviously not taking into account any injuries that would come up, that is how you split up platoons, not the jumbled mess that we have gotten ourselves into. I would even overpay Bruce a bit to take on the 1B duties, and take only a 2 year deal. That way next season you drop his total games some (to around 140 or less) and Yadi's as well so Kelly is catching the majority of the time (90-100 games). These additions to the lineup really add some stability and pop that we have been searching for all year long, even looking like a lineup to be feared; Dexter Fowler CF Tommy Pham RF Josh Donaldson 3B Jay Bruce 1B Yadier Molina C Paul DeJong SS Stephen Piscotty LF Kolten Wong 2B Pitcher P I mean, the difference in what we are trotting out there right now and that lineup? Honestly, depending on who is hot and how they feel in each slot, you can change around Pham, DeJong, Piscotty and Wong however you see fit. Plus then you still have Diaz, Kelly and O'Neill (or which ever OF prospect isnt traded for Donanldson; Bader/Sierra) as the next 3 up if you do run into injuries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) It's highly unlikely Jay Bruce signs with this team if he's told his main position will be 1st base. He hates it there and he's terrible. Edited August 18, 2017 by holt_bruce81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Wainwright headed to St. Louis to have his elbow examined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Wainwright headed to St. Louis to have his elbow examined. Yah, not good. There is clearly something wrong with him. Not just 'dead arm'... So, I think we may be in the market for a SP this off-season. I don't think we want to spend the cash on Lynn (He's likely looking at a Jordan Zimmerman type deal both length wise and salary wise) and with Waino and Leake both trending in the wrong direction last part of the season and durability/health concerns I could see it happening. The fact that we tried to jump into the Sonny Gray market tells me this thought is definitely there... I think we're gonna be busy this off-season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 hours ago, JonStark said: Yes, yes he should. I feel like every time him or Rosenthal are in the game, you can kiss whatever lead we have goodbye. I don't think it matters to DFA Oh at this point. We're not going to pick up the option next year, so he'll be gone. Oh can still get righties out to an extent, but he's garbage against lefties... Don't agree at all on Rosenthal. He's been lights out since All-Star break minus last game when you could clearly see he had an injury... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 12 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Wong is becoming the hitter we've all been waiting on him to become. A slash line of .311/.398/.447/.845 If he could add just a few more HRs to that, he'd be exactly what I think we all thought he'd develop into. Guy who hits for average, gets on base, can steal a base when needed, has speed to run the bases, good defensively and has the occasional pop (talking 8-15 HRs a season)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Here's my brief analysis of where this roster will sit heading into off-season and what I believe the approach will be to upgrade (because it's clearly to that point now given the last two years): -Truly believe we're going to explore all possible avenues via trade and FA to find an impact bat. I'm not saying it's going to be a future HOF/superstar type bat, but I think it'll be a true #3-4 type hitter with a track record. I think the off-season provides opportunity to find that as well, as almost all teams can focus on reshaping their roster and players become available that were never a thought before... -For the rotation, we know Martinez and Leak will be penciled in. Assuming Wainwright is healthy, he'll be in as well. Wacha is a wild card for me, as he's treding in the wrong direction again. It'll be better to assess him at the end of the year at this point. We have the young depth at SP but we could have anywhere from 1 to 3 rotation spots open depending on injury (Waino) and what happens with Wacha. Reyes will fill a spot, but be on an innings limit and assuming we keep 1 of Weaver or Flaherty I think they could be in similar situation if needed. I think we could look to add either a big time starter, or a BOR/depth type starter in FA... -The BP will add/subtract as it does every year. -I think Alex Reyes is off-limits in trade (simply because the FO loves him and rightfully so and the fact that we'd be trading him at his lowest value), but other than that I don't think anyone, including Kelly is untouchable. From what I've read/heard cardinals really like Andrew Knizer. Think his bat will play very well, love his development on defense and he's progressing fast through the organization levels. Also, think that while we don't have a ton of guys on their own that would pull a big piece, do believe we have enough to land one with a package... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: I don't think it matters to DFA Oh at this point. We're not going to pick up the option next year, so he'll be gone. Oh can still get righties out to an extent, but he's garbage against lefties... Don't agree at all on Rosenthal. He's been lights out since All-Star break minus last game when you could clearly see he had an injury... Yeah I guess he has been better as of late, but he was just as bad as Oh before the break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Wainwright to the 10 day DL. Weaver will assume his start next go around... Citing elbow impingement for Waino. I'm tending to lean it's going to end up more severe than just a nerve issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Man why are we calling up Mike Mayers? Why not someone that's actually been a decent bullpen arm? Or freaking Dakota Hudson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I think the obvious answer is a guy we have looked into before; Josh Donaldson. I'm still not totally sure they're willing to move him, I think I remember reading somewhere where they think they're going to be contenders next year. They got off to an absolutely sluggish start, and they're only 3.5 GB of the Wild Card spot. I like him, but I'm still not convinced that the Jays are willing to actually move him. 7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: But I wouldnt stop with that. I think there are Free Agent bats who could make the same type of impact. There are a few other 3B if we couldnt swing Donaldson, that change what we have in the lineup. And if you cant we could go get a J.D. Martinez. But assuming we could make that Donaldson deal, I think signing a guy we should have traded for this year in Jay Bruce would be that second move to sure up the lineup. Are Bruce/Martinez really an upgrade over what we have, especially when you factor in their contracts? Neither one will have draft picks attached to them, which is nice given that the Cardinals don't usually go after those type of FA sans Dexter Fowler. Both are likely at best 2-3 WAR players, and probably going to get least $15M/year. Honestly, I'd almost rather hope that Piscotty rediscovers his swing making $1M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 6 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: Truly believe we're going to explore all possible avenues via trade and FA to find an impact bat. I'm not saying it's going to be a future HOF/superstar type bat, but I think it'll be a true #3-4 type hitter with a track record. I think the off-season provides opportunity to find that as well, as almost all teams can focus on reshaping their roster and players become available that were never a thought before... I've got little doubt they're going to look for it, I just don't see one that's going to be readily available. Honestly, the next impact bat that might be available won't be available until the 2018 offseason. I know we've discussed Josh Donaldson ad nauseam, but outside of him I just don't see anyone making their middle-of-the-order bat available. Maybe I haven't dug far enough. 6 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: For the rotation, we know Martinez and Leak will be penciled in. Assuming Wainwright is healthy, he'll be in as well. Wacha is a wild card for me, as he's treding in the wrong direction again. It'll be better to assess him at the end of the year at this point. We have the young depth at SP but we could have anywhere from 1 to 3 rotation spots open depending on injury (Waino) and what happens with Wacha. Reyes will fill a spot, but be on an innings limit and assuming we keep 1 of Weaver or Flaherty I think they could be in similar situation if needed. I think we could look to add either a big time starter, or a BOR/depth type starter in FA... I'm skeptical that they'd put two "rookies" into the rotation. I'd imagine that the top 4 is already locked, with the last spot likely a competition between Reyes and Weaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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