ANTHONY RICHARDSON - WHAT IF WE TAKE HIM AT #6

[LionArkie]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

You're not drafting a TE with a good arm at #6... you're taking a guy that you feel can develop into being Lamar or Jalen but understand that his athleticism does provide you with an out if that's not the case. Instead of being left with a Baker or Sam Darnold, a highly touted QB that busts out and you're without the pick and the player, we'd have a highly athletic guy that could be moved into another position.

That's what you are proposing, but that is not how I see it. I'm saying the risk you are willing to take is based on the fact he could play TE because of his athleticism dulling the possibility he's not going to cut it (as a qb). If he couldn't play TE, you wouldn't consider him at 6. Why would I do that if I felt more compelled to take a player at a valuable position who I felt would be less likely to bust?

For me, he is not Jalen (53rd pick and 71.8% completion pct) or Lamar (pick 32 and 59.1% Completion %). You are getting a 53.1% completion pct who is athletic. His qb numbers are worse but we are going to make him one of these guys? Instead of AR being Jalen or Lamar, maybe he is just Anthony Richardson?

We have a chance to upgrade our team for a playoff push. Let's just take care of that. If Stroud or Young fell, then sure. But I wouldn't take AR at all in the first. For some reason, we fall in love with combine numbers.

Edited April 4, 2023 by LionArkie

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Superduperman said:

Oh wait wait, can we do a "move Okudah to safety" thread? I mean while we're talking dumb ideas, let's get that classic out of the way

Why is that a dumb idea?  Many have said with his ability to tackle that he may make a better safety.  It would make a busted pick, not busted if he were to be good in a different role, sort of like Will Harris.  Does it make it a perfect pick? not even close, but it saves value. 

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, LionArkie said:

That's what you are proposing, but that is not how I see it. I'm saying the risk you are willing to take is based on the fact he could play TE because of his athleticism dulling the possibility he's not going to cut it (as a qb). If he couldn't play TE, you wouldn't consider him at 6. Why would I do that if I felt more compelled to take a player at a valuable position who I felt would be less likely to bust?

For me, he is not Jalen (53rd pick and 71.8% completion pct) or Lamar (pick 32 and 59.1% Completion %). You are getting a 53.1% completion pct who is athletic. His qb numbers are worse but we are going to make him one of these guys? Instead of AR being Jalen or Lamar, maybe he is just Anthony Richardson?

We have a chance to upgrade our team for a playoff push. Let's just take care of that. If Stroud or Young fell, then sure. But I wouldn't take AR at all in the first. For some reason, we fall in love with combine numbers.

	ATT	CMP	PCT	YDS	TD	INT		ATT	YDS	TD
Cam Newton	280	185	66.1%	2854	30	7		264	1473	20
Jalen Hurts	340	237	69.7%	3851	32	8		233	1298	20
Josh Allen	270	152	56.3%	1812	16	6		92	204	5
Justin Fields	225	158	70.2%	2100	22	6		81	383	5
Lamar Jackson	430	254	59.1%	3660	27	10		232	1601	18
Anthony Richardson	327	176	53.8%	3105	17	9		103	654	9

[Karnage84]

I haven't really looked at AR's stats outside of the completion percentage.

• Attempts - 3rd most (behind Hurts and Lamar)
• Completions - 4th (ahead of Allen and Fields in actual attempts)
• Yards - 3rd most
• TD - 2nd last
• INT - 2nd last

He's thrown for a lot more yards than I would have expected and rushed for a bit less than I would have expected (even ratio). 

 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

The flip-side to this is that if you take a QB because you have to take it becomes problematic.  If you are taking a QB in the first round you have to be "sold" on that prospect.  Taking a QB because you have to take a QB is how guys like Christian Ponder get over-drafted.

Taking a QB at 6 because you have an extra high pick, a guy you like falls to you, and you dont have glaring immediate needs is not forcing yourself into drafting a QB.  If he is Ponder we still have Goff, so we would likely be ok with a somewhat limited ceiling.  But taking him would obviously be because our staff saw something in their numerous trips to UF this year and they are sold on him.    

[LionArkie]

59 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I haven't really looked at AR's stats outside of the completion percentage.

• Attempts - 3rd most (behind Hurts and Lamar)
• Completions - 4th (ahead of Allen and Fields in actual attempts)
• Yards - 3rd most
• TD - 2nd last
• INT - 2nd last

He's thrown for a lot more yards than I would have expected and rushed for a bit less than I would have expected (even ratio). 

 

Just out of curiosity, why do we compare him to Jalen Hurts and Lawrence Jackson and never Tim Tebow? After all, I remember these same arguments being made for Tebow.

Passing

Player                              Year      G    Cmp    Att     Pct     Yds      Y/A       AY/A    TD     Int     Rate

Tim Tebow                       2009    14   213    314     67.8    2895   9.2          9.8      21        5      164.2

Anthony Richardson        2022    12    176    327    53.8    2549   7.8          7.6       17        9      131.0

 

Rushing

Player                              Year      G           Att          Yds         Avg       TD

Tim Tebow                      2009     14          217          910        4.2        14

Anthony Richardson       2022     12         103          654        6.3         9

Edited April 4, 2023 by LionArkie

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

I haven't really looked at AR's stats outside of the completion percentage.

• Attempts - 3rd most (behind Hurts and Lamar)
• Completions - 4th (ahead of Allen and Fields in actual attempts)
• Yards - 3rd most
• TD - 2nd last
• INT - 2nd last

He's thrown for a lot more yards than I would have expected and rushed for a bit less than I would have expected (even ratio). 

 

Your numbers for Richardson are combining his total career for pass yards but only last year for rush yards.  He only had 2,549 pass yards last year.  

[Karnage84]

13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Your numbers for Richardson are combining his total career for pass yards but only last year for rush yards.  He only had 2,549 pass yards last year.  

Must have looked at the wrong one... good call.

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, LionArkie said:

Just out of curiosity, why do we compare him to Jalen Hurts and Lawrence Jackson and never Tim Tebow? After all, I remember these same arguments being made for Tebow.

Passing

Player                              Year      G    Cmp    Att     Pct     Yds      Y/A       AY/A    TD     Int     Rate

Tim Tebow                       2009    14   213    314     67.8    2895   9.2          9.8      21        5      164.2

Anthony Richardson        2022    12    176    327    53.8    2549   7.8          7.6       17        9      131.0

 

Rushing

Player                              Year      G           Att          Yds         Avg       TD

Tim Tebow                      2009     14          217          910        4.2        14

Anthony Richardson       2022     12         103          654        6.3         9

I was looking at more recent example of guys in the league. It wasn't intended to be a thorough deep dive into every dual threat QB, especially those with poor completion %

[BigC421/]

3 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

	ATT	CMP	PCT	YDS	TD	INT		ATT	YDS	TD
Cam Newton	280	185	66.1%	2854	30	7		264	1473	20
Jalen Hurts	340	237	69.7%	3851	32	8		233	1298	20
Josh Allen	270	152	56.3%	1812	16	6		92	204	5
Justin Fields	225	158	70.2%	2100	22	6		81	383	5
Lamar Jackson	430	254	59.1%	3660	27	10		232	1601	18
Anthony Richardson	327	176	53.8%	3105	17	9		103	654	9

One thing that gets over looked is the offense Richardson played in, it better prepared him for the NFL but it didn’t do him any favors statistically. He was asked to make difficult down field passes at different levels not a bunch of wr screens.  There’s no denying his inconsistency and inaccuracies but he probably would have been in New York if he played in a Tennessee or Ohio State style offense.

2 hours ago, LionArkie said:

Just out of curiosity, why do we compare him to Jalen Hurts and Lawrence Jackson and never Tim Tebow? After all, I remember these same arguments being made for Tebow.

Passing

Player                              Year      G    Cmp    Att     Pct     Yds      Y/A       AY/A    TD     Int     Rate

Tim Tebow                       2009    14   213    314     67.8    2895   9.2          9.8      21        5      164.2

Anthony Richardson        2022    12    176    327    53.8    2549   7.8          7.6       17        9      131.0

 

Rushing

Player                              Year      G           Att          Yds         Avg       TD

Tim Tebow                      2009     14          217          910        4.2        14

Anthony Richardson       2022     12         103          654        6.3         9

You serious Clark?  I mean talent would be the obvious reason. Tebow was an all time great college player with no NFL talent and Richardson is about the opposite.  Tebow has a very long and slow throwing motion to complement his wet noodle arm. Richardson has a very effortless throwing motion and can adjust it accordingly.  Tebow’s also not half the explosion athlete Richardson is. 

[nagahide13]

I'd be okay with it. I wanted Tua over Okudah for similar reasons.

[LionArkie]

1 hour ago, BigC421/ said:

One thing that gets over looked is the offense Richardson played in, it better prepared him for the NFL but it didn’t do him any favors statistically. He was asked to make difficult down field passes at different levels not a bunch of wr screens.  There’s no denying his inconsistency and inaccuracies but he probably would have been in New York if he played in a Tennessee or Ohio State style offense.

You serious Clark?  I mean talent would be the obvious reason. Tebow was an all time great college player with no NFL talent and Richardson is about the opposite.  Tebow has a very long and slow throwing motion to complement his wet noodle arm. Richardson has a very effortless throwing motion and can adjust it accordingly.  Tebow’s also not half the explosion athlete Richardson is. 

53% completion percentage with a 6.x yard average per attempt. That doesn’t sound like a down field passing attack. My point with Tebow is we are comparing with the outlying success stories and not the flops. If we draft him he will be <insert outlying success here>. The comparison isn’t about throwing motions. It’s about first round qb taken based on potential and not performance. He didn’t produce well in college so he obviously will be great in the pros. I just don’t buy into that argument.

now he might end up being great, but I don’t want that risk at 6.

Edited April 4, 2023 by LionArkie

[Just Want A Title]

A much more interesting discussion might be where Hendon Hooker is drafted.  Other than concerns that he might be a "one-read QB" and that he is an older prospect coming off of an ACL there aren't many negatives with respect to his play on the field.  His projections are all over the place right now.

[Louis Friend]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:11 AM, Sllim Pickens said:

Didn't realize 6 sentences was too long to be worth reading if you're going to respond.  

I'll keep it short for you.  If Kelce type TE as he stated, not bust, even if drafted as QB.  If its Taysom Hill results, its underwhelming, but still has value.   And a QB busting in the top 6 is not an all time bust. 

Thats why I think the Bears should consider moving Fields to RB and draft a QB, and I'm not being facetious. I think he could be a much better Tysom Hill or CMC. I think if Tebow had moved to TE he'd still be in the NFL. But teams and players are hesitant to move bad QBs to other positions. I don't understand it. I don't think I'd be comfortable drafting a TE top 6 though, so I agree with Superduperman. But I understand where Sllim is coming from. 

[Karnage84]

25 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Thats why I think the Bears should consider moving Fields to RB and draft a QB, and I'm not being facetious. I think he could be a much better Tysom Hill or CMC. I think if Tebow had moved to TE he'd still be in the NFL. But teams and players are hesitant to move bad QBs to other positions. I don't understand it. I don't think I'd be comfortable drafting a TE top 6 though, so I agree with Superduperman. But I understand where Sllim is coming from. 

We're not drafting a TE at #6. We'd be drafting a player with the intention of playing them at QB with the understanding that he could be moved into another position and contribute in the event he can't develop into the QB we hope he would be.

Instead of drafting a Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold and being left with nothing when they fail out, he'd have an opportunity in a Taysom Hill/Logan Thomas to add value. It's just a hedge in drafting a player that does need some time to develop.