Raiders sign QB Brian Hoyer (2 years)

[jimkelly02]

58 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

It's not about his skill and him playing games. He's valuable in the locker room. Excellent teacher and mentor for an eventual rookie QB. 

Go read the comments on Hoyer from the McCourtey's in their last Super Bowl. They credited him for understanding and breaking down McVey's offense setting them up for success in that game. Hoyer is a future coach. That's what this move is. 

Your absolutely right, Hoyer brings a lot to the team while not playing.  I don’t think that value is appreciated.  
 

Nonetheless, the issue the people questioning this move have aren’t being answered.  Do you really think Hoyer similar offers?  Could he have been had without guaranteed year 2 Money?  
 

Personally, my issue is: we are being told we have to go with cheap 1 year players (like Shelley, Long, etc) but then we sign Hoyer and if feels like an overpay… so maybe that unwisely spent money (Bolden included) could have been spent on better talent, defensive talent especially.

[big_palooka]

31 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

hire him as a QB coach. what's the point of having one if we have Hoyer. Hoyer should have been a minimum camp invite at best. if Gabers beat him out, then so be it

Why does it matter? He's QB3 and Garbers is a PS player. 

You're talking about QB3 on the roster. Assuming QB2 is your rookie development piece, then I'd rather have a vet who can help mentor and breakdown film. 

Seems like a trivial thing to be upset over.  

[jimkelly02]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You're talking about QB3 on the roster. Assuming QB2 is your rookie development piece, then I'd rather have a vet who can help mentor and breakdown film. 

So again, not trying to give you grief… but it seems like your dedicated to defending this…. So I’ll ask this question in good faith:

1) I don’t think anyone is against paying Hoyer near the league minimum for 1 year, but to guarantee year 2 and pay him 2x the league minimum when he’s played for the league minimum of just above it the last 3 years.

2) why are we paying Hoyer and using a roster spot to act as a QB coach?  Is Hardegree not capable and needs Hoyer?

[big_palooka]

24 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Your absolutely right, Hoyer brings a lot to the team while not playing.  I don’t think that value is appreciated.  
 

Nonetheless, the issue the people questioning this move have aren’t being answered.  Do you really think Hoyer similar offers?  Could he have been had without guaranteed year 2 Money?  
 

Personally, my issue is: we are being told we have to go with cheap 1 year players (like Shelley, Long, etc) but then we sign Hoyer and if feels like an overpay… so maybe that unwisely spent money (Bolden included) could have been spent on better talent, defensive talent especially.

2 yrs, 4.5 mil? That's a drop in the bucket signing. We're talking 1% of the cap next year. I don't understand being upset at that. I have no idea his value around the league, but seems like peanuts for a good vet mentor when you're planning to draft a rookie. 

[big_palooka]

12 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

So again, not trying to give you grief… but it seems like your dedicated to defending this…. So I’ll ask this question in good faith:

1) I don’t think anyone is against paying Hoyer near the league minimum for 1 year, but to guarantee year 2 and pay him 2x the league minimum when he’s played for the league minimum of just above it the last 3 years.

2) why are we paying Hoyer and using a roster spot to act as a QB coach?  Is Hardegree not capable and needs Hoyer?

Only defending the fact that this is a completely irrelevant signing. His impact is nil.

Does paying the backup QB 2 year 4.5 mil hurt anything?

Because they went value with guys like Shelly and Long seems irrelevant to the conversation. It's clear the defense is going to be the focal point of the draft. I'm in a wait and see after the draft how the roster stacks up right now. 

 

[jimkelly02]

13 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

2 yrs, 4.5 mil? That's a drop in the bucket signing. We're talking 1% of the cap next year. I don't understand being upset at that. I have no idea his value around the league, but seems like peanuts for a good vet mentor when you're planning to draft a rookie. 

You say 4.5m is a drop in the bucket…. But that’s for a 3rd string QB who we hope never plays, yet on the flip side we’re being told we can only spend 1.2M or whatever on CBs like Long and Shelley.

Its the “sum of the waste”… a little overpay here, a little there…. And then there’s no money for the defense.  Not to mention, people are questioning the negotiation skills here.  Was year 2 really necessary to guarantee?  

Maybe you don’t think it’s a big deal, but other people do and I don’t think their stupid or incorrect for pointing this out.  It’s like a politician who increases taxes, sends aid money overseas, and then says we have to make cuts to education or social programs.  The voters would want to know why he did that.   
 

while none of the questioned moves are ridiculous by themselves, it’s the sum of overpaying that has people concerned and left thinking that the money could have been spent better with other moves.

Edited April 6, 2023 by jimkelly02

[jimkelly02]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Does paying the backup QB 2 year 4.5 mil hurt anything?

Again, if we are being told we only have 1y, 1.2-1.5m for CBs (Long and Shelley) who will be playing major snaps and really haven’t addressed LB …. It does make some fans wonder why 3rd string QB is being given more money than CB2 or other positions of need.

Fans are left thinking …. Couldn’t we have afforded better then Spillane?  Could we have signed a better CB for 3M?

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Again, if we are being told we only have 1y, 1.2-1.5m for CBs (Long and Shelley) who will be playing major snaps and really haven’t addressed LB …. It does make some fans wonder why 3rd string QB is being given more money than CB2 or other positions of need.

Fans are left thinking …. Couldn’t we have afforded better then Spillane?  Could we have signed a better CB for 3M?

And we make guys like Chandler 10th highest paid edge in the nfl just because 

[big_palooka]

20 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

You say 4.5m is a drop in the bucket…. But that’s for a 3rd string QB who we hope never plays, yet on the flip side we’re being told we can only spend 1.2M or whatever on CBs like Long and Shelley.

Its the “sum of the waste”… a little overpay here, a little there…. And then there’s no money for the defense.  Not to mention, people are questioning the negotiation skills here.  Was year 2 really necessary to guarantee?  

Maybe you don’t think it’s a big deal, but other people do and I don’t think their stupid or incorrect for pointing this out.  It’s like a politician who increases taxes, sends aid money overseas, and then says we have to make cuts to education or social programs.  The voters would want to know why he did that.   
 

while none of the questioned moves are ridiculous by themselves, it’s the sum of overpaying that has people concerned and left thinking that the money could have been spent better with other moves.

Who said that exactly? 

The money feels right for a backup vet QB. I don't think that it takes away from anything else. There is money left for defense, but clearly they want to handle that in the draft. 

I think the roster, especially on defense is being prematurely judged. When they draft Dline, CB, LB with early picks, the defense suddenly has a different feel.

And as I've said previously... if they draft WR, TE, QB with those picks, then I'll pick up the pitchforks with the rest of you. 

[big_palooka]

21 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Again, if we are being told we only have 1y, 1.2-1.5m for CBs (Long and Shelley) who will be playing major snaps and really haven’t addressed LB …. It does make some fans wonder why 3rd string QB is being given more money than CB2 or other positions of need.

Fans are left thinking …. Couldn’t we have afforded better then Spillane?  Could we have signed a better CB for 3M?

QBs are paid more so really redundant argument. 

Who could we have signed better than Spillane and who is the 3 mil CB you would have preferred? Goes back to wanting "names". Sign Bush or Jack... everyone is happy. Sign the no name guy who outplayed them, people don't like it because "who is that".

I don't sweat CB as they will draft CB1 early. So you have cheap competition for #2. 

I think fans are splitting hairs over small insignificant role players. The FA class was weak this year. Smart not to overpay average. The team wants to build via the draft, so let's see how the roster looks after.  

[jimkelly02]

5 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

And we make guys like Chandler 10th highest paid edge in the nfl just because 

That too.  Your absolutely right.  But I’m chalking that up as a learning mistake, last years issues.  

My personal thing is for a group of people that that talk so much about constantly evaluating themselves and accountability… I don’t see positive change. In fact, it seems like it’s getting worse.

[BackinBlack]

11 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Who said that exactly? 

The money feels right for a backup vet QB. I don't think that it takes away from anything else. There is money left for defense, but clearly they want to handle that in the draft. 

I think the roster, especially on defense is being prematurely judged. When they draft Dline, CB, LB with early picks, the defense suddenly has a different feel.

And as I've said previously... if they draft WR, TE, QB with those picks, then I'll pick up the pitchforks with the rest of you. 

But will be allowed to judge the D next year? or no because its too young of a D?
Seems like JMD playing the have an easy out every season a little:

Year 1: didnt have his qb
Year 2: the D is to young
Year 3: ?

-
I understand these are legit reasons, and why coaches needed time, I just hope Mark Davis has told him he is safe and wants to build it correctly. 
But if JMD is trying to compete against KC and Chargers with rookies on every level of D, I think he may be in for a rude awakening 

Edited April 6, 2023 by BackinBlack

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

QBs are paid more so really redundant argument. 

Who could we have signed better than Spillane and who is the 3 mil CB you would have preferred? Goes back to wanting "names". Sign Bush or Jack... everyone is happy. Sign the no name guy who outplayed them, people don't like it because "who is that".

I don't sweat CB as they will draft CB1 early. So you have cheap competition for #2. 

I think fans are splitting hairs over small insignificant role players. The FA class was weak this year. Smart not to overpay average. The team wants to build via the draft, so let's see how the roster looks after.  

It’s wasn’t a redundant argument… until you made it one by your circular logic and ignoring the counterpoints.  You just ignore the facts that are inconvenient.  Guaranteed salary year 2 for a 38yo QB3 is ridiculous, but you won’t admit that part because it’d put a crack in your defense of the FO.

Honestly, any LB I’d list… you’d come up with any reason why they wouldn’t sign here or “omg another ‘big name’”, etc.  so what’s the point… for everyone else they can look at the list of LBs signed for 5-6M and see who could have been had.  

It seems like your just incapable of understanding the concerns of others.  You think your opinion is right and anything that differs is irrelevant.  

I really tied to interact with you in a decent, honest manner… and it’s just not worth it.  You’ll defend everything the FO does with vigor.  No move, small or large should have a critical evaluation done of it.  Paying Bolden 2.85m this year…. brilliant move, you have no idea how much knowledge and insight he gives Jacobs, he’s the reason why Jacobs lead the league in rushing.  Zeigler for GM of the Year! Us fans that question things (and the nfl execs who have done the same) are just morons for not understanding the genuis of the Patriot Way.

 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

It's not about his skill and him playing games. He's valuable in the locker room. Excellent teacher and mentor for an eventual rookie QB. 

Go read the comments on Hoyer from the McCourtey's in their last Super Bowl. They credited him for understanding and breaking down McVey's offense setting them up for success in that game. Hoyer is a future coach. That's what this move is. 

Could've and should've hired him as a coach for less then. 

So what we did is gave another one of Josh's ex Pat boys a sweetheart deal we could ill afford. 

I'm genuinely not shocked at this point. 

[jimkelly02]

19 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Could've and should've hired him as a coach for less then. 

So what we did is gave another one of Josh's ex Pat boys a sweetheart deal we could ill afford. 

I'm genuinely not shocked at this point. 

McD and Hoyer aren’t that far off in age… spent a lot (6 years I believe) of time together….

Maybe Hoyer invited Josh to his wedding, unlike Waller.

I just found out Josh hired his brother to be Offensive assistant then the next year QB coach when he was HC of Denver.  Took his brother right out of HS coaching, where he was the QB coach, not even the High school HC, to the NFL.  And he’s Not even a John Carrol Alum!  He went to Rutgers!