2nd Round Pick - S/CB Jartavius Martin

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

Where does Martin play? Its just another rotational guy like Mathis picked with a relatively high draft choice. 

The guy he's replacing played 93% of defensive snaps last year.  

[lavar703]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

The guy he's replacing played 93% of defensive snaps last year.  

That's fine. Our OL was horrible last year and Bobby McCain wasn't. He wasn't even expensive to keep. He wasn't great by any means but they created another unnecessary hole they had to fill again. The Quan Martin pick is the Mathis pick all over again. Its even worse when you consider they spent a 4th round pick on trying to fill this role last year that appears to have been a waste. A reach no less but that's their MO. All of this stuff adds up over time. Again, I don't hate Quan Martin and I do think he's a good player but I think that pick would've been better served on the OL. 

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

That's fine. Our OL was horrible last year and Bobby McCain wasn't. He wasn't even expensive to keep. He wasn't great by any means but they created another unnecessary hole they had to fill again. The Quan Martin pick is the Mathis pick all over again. Its even worse when you consider they spent a 4th round pick on trying to fill this role last year that appears to have been a waste. A reach no less but that's their MO. All of this stuff adds up over time. Again, I don't hate Quan Martin and I do think he's a good player but I think that pick would've been better served on the OL. 

I don't agree with this assessment at all.  I think Martin is a big upgrade, no one has effectively played slot for us for like a decade. The Guard you're pointing out in the 2nd also doesn't fit our blocking scheme. 

[RSkinGM]

18 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

That's fine. Our OL was horrible last year and Bobby McCain wasn't. He wasn't even expensive to keep. He wasn't great by any means but they created another unnecessary hole they had to fill again. The Quan Martin pick is the Mathis pick all over again. Its even worse when you consider they spent a 4th round pick on trying to fill this role last year that appears to have been a waste. A reach no less but that's their MO. All of this stuff adds up over time. Again, I don't hate Quan Martin and I do think he's a good player but I think that pick would've been better served on the OL. 

Percy Butler a waste - bit early for that call doncha think ?

[lavar703]

35 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Percy Butler a waste - bit early for that call doncha think ?

No I don't considering they just used a 2nd round pick on a player who plays the same position he was drafted to play. 

[MKnight82]

15 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

No I don't considering they just used a 2nd round pick on a player who plays the same position he was drafted to play. 

They don't play the same position though lol. 

[lavar703]

12 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

They don't play the same position though lol. 

They drafted Percy Butler for the Buffalo nickel role. That is the exact role Quan Martin was drafted to play. 

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/percy-butler-will-having-immediate-impact-on-defense

 

In a sitdown interview with senior vice president of media and content Julie Donaldson, Ron Rivera said that he foresees former Ragin' Cajun and fourth-round pick Percy Butler competing for the role, among others, this offseason.

"He'll be part of our buffalo and nickel packages," Rivera said. "He'll get an opportunity to play the nickel position. And when we go to big nickel, he could end up as the safety, or he could end up as the big nickel."

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/commanders-focused-db-ol-ahead-120105118.html

 

“At cornerback I think we filled a need that we were looking for a playmaker, and I think Emmanuel does that for us,” he said. “With Quan [Jartavius Martin], we got a guy that has the ability to come in and play buffalo nickel as well as free safety and, again, adds more depth.”

[RSkinGM]

21 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

They don't play the same position though lol. 

That's what I thought also - safety and slot. Don't remember anything about Butler playing slot . OK see your comments above .

Edited May 11, 2023 by RSkinGM

[MKnight82]

25 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

They drafted Percy Butler for the Buffalo nickel role. That is the exact role Quan Martin was drafted to play. 

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/percy-butler-will-having-immediate-impact-on-defense

 

In a sitdown interview with senior vice president of media and content Julie Donaldson, Ron Rivera said that he foresees former Ragin' Cajun and fourth-round pick Percy Butler competing for the role, among others, this offseason.

"He'll be part of our buffalo and nickel packages," Rivera said. "He'll get an opportunity to play the nickel position. And when we go to big nickel, he could end up as the safety, or he could end up as the big nickel."

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/commanders-focused-db-ol-ahead-120105118.html

 

“At cornerback I think we filled a need that we were looking for a playmaker, and I think Emmanuel does that for us,” he said. “With Quan [Jartavius Martin], we got a guy that has the ability to come in and play buffalo nickel as well as free safety and, again, adds more depth.”

That's not what we saw on the field last year.  When Butler was out there he was playing deep safety, so somewhere between that interview in the preseason to actually playing games they decided that Butler would play deep safety.  Unfortunately for him, but fortunate for the team, Darrick Forrest just played a great season as the deep safety and supplanted him in that role. We actually have a really young, talented, deep and exciting secondary and this front office is responsible for drafting and developing all of them.  I have no idea why someone would be complaining about anything related to our secondary. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

I don't agree with this assessment at all.  I think Martin is a big upgrade, no one has effectively played slot for us for like a decade. The Guard you're pointing out in the 2nd also doesn't fit our blocking scheme. 

It’s a good point. I’m trying to remember the last time we had someone better then just average to below in the slot. I guess Moreland was ok, but he was more average. The last time we had 3 good to great corners was when we had Springs, Smoot & Carlos Rogers or was it D Hall w/ Rogers & Smoot? Yeah I think that’s what it was and it was like 08 & 09 or something. 

[lavar703]

13 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

That's not what we saw on the field last year.  When Butler was out there he was playing deep safety, so somewhere between that interview in the preseason to actually playing games they decided that Butler would play deep safety.  Unfortunately for him, but fortunate for the team, Darrick Forrest just played a great season as the deep safety and supplanted him in that role. We actually have a really young, talented, deep and exciting secondary and this front office is responsible for drafting and developing all of them.  I have no idea why someone would be complaining about anything related to our secondary. 

Because that 4th round pick could've been spent on something different. Just like the Mathis pick could've been spent on something different. There were certainly better players available when they picked these guys. And I'd venture to say our OG situation is much worse than our slot/nickel/buffalo nickel situation. They could've just kept Bobby McCain at a cheap deal and drafted Torrance. Instead they harped on the position flex crap again instead of just taking the best available player. Again, I like Quan Martin but he absolutely was not the BPA. Not only that but probably the BPA at that time was at a glaring position of need. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, RSkinGM said:

Percy Butler a waste - bit early for that call doncha think ?

100 agree.
 

1. Butler was arguably our 2nd best special teams guy last year after the Pro Bowler Reaves.

2. He was also just rookie and he might have to/get to play a bigger role this year, you just never know how things will go.

3. They drafted Butler not knowing that DeFo was going to break out for sure at FS. So, FS was a need although I would’ve argued last year that last year too CB, OG & LB were bigger needs than FS bc we had McCain coming back & DeFo to back him up when the draft happened but it's definitely not true that Percy Butker was a waste. 

I don't know why Lavar goes to the extremes on guys when he's frustrated with them, doesn't like them or doesn't like the decision the front office made in acquiring the player.

It’s like 0 to 100 and no in between 😂 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

They drafted Percy Butler for the Buffalo nickel role. That is the exact role Quan Martin was drafted to play. 

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/percy-butler-will-having-immediate-impact-on-defense

 

In a sitdown interview with senior vice president of media and content Julie Donaldson, Ron Rivera said that he foresees former Ragin' Cajun and fourth-round pick Percy Butler competing for the role, among others, this offseason.

"He'll be part of our buffalo and nickel packages," Rivera said. "He'll get an opportunity to play the nickel position. And when we go to big nickel, he could end up as the safety, or he could end up as the big nickel."

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/commanders-focused-db-ol-ahead-120105118.html

 

“At cornerback I think we filled a need that we were looking for a playmaker, and I think Emmanuel does that for us,” he said. “With Quan [Jartavius Martin], we got a guy that has the ability to come in and play buffalo nickel as well as free safety and, again, adds more depth.”

Percy Butler was drafted to be a FS & bc he was one of the top special teams coverage prospects in the 2022 draft & he was great at special teams for us covering kicks. 

When we drafted Butler we didn't know for sure that DeFo was going to break out at FS & we needed depth there behind McCain.

As McKinght said, we have needed an upgrade at slot CB/Buffalo nickel on run downs for years, arguably we haven’t had a better than average slot CB since we had DHall, Rogers & Smoot together in 08 & 09 I think.

Ron is just saying that Butler will compete for those spots too. I’m actually giddy we have so much young talent at DB, it’s been over a decade since we had this much talent at DB, arguably near 20 years back to the days when we had Springs, Smoot, Harris, ST & Clark.

Martin & Butler are similar & we could need both. They have the ability to play Buffalo Nickle/slot & FS as well. I think Martin also played outside CB as a young corner.

Edited May 11, 2023 by turtle28

[lavar703]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

100 agree.
 

1. Butler was arguably our 2nd best special teams guy last year after the Pro Bowler Reaves.

2. He was also just rookie and he might have to/get to play a bigger role this year, you just never know how things will go.

3. They drafted Butler not knowing that DeFo was going to break out for sure at FS. So, FS was a need although I would’ve argued last year that last year too CB, OG & LB were bigger needs than FS bc we had McCain coming back & DeFo to back him up when the draft happened but it's definitely not true that Percy Butker was a waste. 

I don't know why Lavar goes to the extremes on guys when he's frustrated with them, doesn't like them or doesn't like the decision the front office made in acquiring the player.

It’s like 0 to 100 and no in between 😂 

The reason I get pissed is because these dummies create holes that aren't there and then use the draft to fill them back in. All they do is shuffle deck chairs and we end up winning 7 or 8 games. Its the same crap every year. Its why this team needs a GM who is also not the head coach. 

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

The reason I get pissed is because these dummies create holes that aren't there and then use the draft to fill them back in. All they do is shuffle deck chairs and we end up winning 7 or 8 games. Its the same crap every year. Its why this team needs a GM who is also not the head coach. 

You can make the argument & I will that they got younger & more athletic in the secondary & along the OL this off-season.

They needed to move on from Bobby McCain, I actually wish they hadn’t re-signed him last year. I’ve never seen a FS be so poor in communication & blow deep coverages and not be replaced. 
 

It remains to be seen but I am interested as Mknight & @e16bball are if they might be changing to a ZBS system for their run game. That could be why they passed on Torrence; if True.

Then, you come back and draft two more athletic and lighter OL in Stromberg & Daniels with back to back picks. Those look like Shanahan interior OL draft picks to me. 

We have more youth on our OL than people realize. They drafted Cosmi, Saahdiq Charles, Chris Paul - who they really like reports are & he played fine vs Dallas - and now Stromberg & Braden Daniels. They all will be in competition for a starting spot. Both guard spots & C are up for grabs it seems.