2024 NFL Draft

[ronjon1990]

45 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

The football community need to stop throwing the term "generational talent" around so blindly. Williams doesn't even have generational size for the position. And not sure what it is, but he is not a likable guy.

No kidding!

"Generational" is not "semi-annual". It's once every, what, 10 or so years for the NFL? And even then, I have yet to be so utterly blown away by a single prospect in ages to justify the title being given to a prospect. Andrew Luck was about as sure a thing as was going to come into the league. Trevor Lawrence....I honestly never saw him as leaps and bounds ahead of some other recent guys- Herbert, Tua, Burrow, Young, Stroud, etc, rather just a long built up hype train. And there's a huge difference between hyped up and "generational". 

Caleb isn't likeable, he doesn't rise to the occasion, and.....I'll be the first to say it: USC IS NOT THAT DEVOID OF TALENT SO PEOPLE NEED TO STOP WITH THAT EXCUSE. Yes, their D isn't very good and I think Riley and Grinch are both overrated as coaches. But the offensive side of the ball, where Williams plays, has enough talent for a "generational" prospect to look better than undraftable every time they play a semi-decent opponent. The best "big game" I've seen from him was the bowl loss to Tulane. And, hey, as someone who attended many Tulane games, I have a soft spot for them and love that they've basically controlled the AAC the last couple of years. But it's Tulane. 

Williams is all hype based on enough people simply saying he's supposed to be great with little substance to back it up. I got hammered for saying it, so best believe I was super ecstatic when someone finally made the graphic about his struggles against good opponents. And I've watched all of USC's games this year just to see. Dude doesn't pass the eye test either. He's been bottled up by mid programs like Arizona and Arizona St way too often, amd they're not even particularly good. Aside from Addison, they didn't lose enough players from last year to now to justify Williams' lack of success. 

Were he lighting it up and the D letting him down, different story. But that simply hasn't been the case. He just hasn't been good. Have the opponents just gotten better? Probably to a large degree, yes, as the Pac12 looks fantastic this year. Have opposing coaches just learned to scheme for him? Probably, yeah. 

But that begs the million dollar question: what's so great about his prospects at the next level then? If 1 year in he looks bad against good competition and opposing college coaches- even ones that aren't seen as superstars- have learned how to bottle him up, what the heck does anyone think happens in the pros? 

I've said before, he strikes me as Manziel-esque. Is he a party guy bound for off-field embarrassment? No, not that part of Manziel. The part he reminds me of is the guy who made his mark going off-script and thought he was too good to actually fail- and a lot, A LOT of people blew that smoke up his arse from day one until they couldn't anymore. 

It's clear as day he thinks way to highly of himself. Between the body language, the rumor and innuendo surrounding a potential return to USC if he doesn't approve of the draft order, and the rumor about wanting ownership stakes, where there is smoke, there's fire. And there is a ton of smoke. 

[Tank4Drake]

Glad to see we all see eye to eye on QB’s in the draft for once. 

We all might eat some crow in Levis though. I doubt it. I think it’s just teams not having tape on him. We’ll find out by the end of the year. 

[bucksavage1]

19 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

This is why I didn’t like Carr as a prospect. It’s why I hated Lock as a prospect. Rosen. Darnold. Trubisky.  And many, many more. I don’t think Caleb is those guys. But he might end up just a fancy Kyler Murray tbh. 

It’s gonna be important to get him into a good NFL system that plays towards his strengths. There’s no reason by year 4 he isn’t Jalen Hurts/Tua/ Trevor Lawerence type starter. 
 

This has more to do as USC is vastly overrated team. 

[Tank4Drake]

1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said:

It’s gonna be important to get him into a good NFL system that plays towards his strengths. There’s no reason by year 4 he isn’t Jalen Hurts/Tua/ Trevor Lawerence type starter. 
 

This has more to do as USC is vastly overrated team. 

Sure there’s a reason…. He’s 6 foot tall and also not that intelligent. Riley’s system makes receivers open and reads easy. 

[ronjon1990]

36 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

Glad to see we all see eye to eye on QB’s in the draft for once. 

We all might eat some crow in Levis though. I doubt it. I think it’s just teams not having tape on him. We’ll find out by the end of the year. 

For several different reasons, Levis was off of a lot of boards and justifiably so- even if he pans out. He wasn't a 1st round quality prospect at the end of the day, the Titans just might have struck gold. No crow necessary- No way Levis looks as good here right now. Sitting for a bit likely helped him, and Josh would've had to start him if we took him. 

As for this year, I anticipate some good debate about different QBs depending on where we wind up picking and who declares. I'm a Penix guy, Palooka is a McCarthy guy, etc. There's gonna be differences. I'd take Penix in the 1st, I have that much faith. To me, he's a 1st round quality QB. Then again, I 100% understand he probably goes in the 2nd or 3rd (and, hey, if we want to hold off til then, great). I won't be mad not taking him top 10, I wouldn't be mad taking McCarthy over him. So on, so forth. 

I do think there's going to be aarge majority that ultimately agrees on who we shouldn't take though. Williams ain't it. Bo Nix ain't it. Maye is a safe prospect at least, McCarthy should be alright, Pratt, Penix, yada yada. 

QBs this year 100% off my list:

Williams

Nix

Ewers

I'm just not seeing any hype with them. Everyone else has their own warts that may or may not make them 1st round worthy, but I can be persuaded.

[bucksavage1]

3 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

Sure there’s a reason…. He’s 6 foot tall and also not that intelligent. Riley’s system makes receivers open and reads easy. 

There’s a reason why Lincoln Riley has never won a National Title. He’s a front running coach and made his living off destroying weaker opponents. 1-4 in bowl games and 0-3 CFP games. 

What he needs to do is not have Lincoln Riley riding his coattails to the NFL 

Get him to the right coach , system and he will be fine. Don’t over analyze Williams.
 

Would I risk the farm for him? Probably not 

[Tank4Drake]

1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said:

There’s a reason why Lincoln Riley has never won a National Title. He’s a front running coach and made his living off destroying weaker opponents. 1-4 in bowl games and 0-3 CFP games. 

What he needs to do is not have Lincoln Riley riding his coattails to the NFL 

Get him to the right coach , system and he will be fine. Don’t over analyze Williams.
 

Would I risk the farm for him? Probably not 

I mean I’m still drafting Williams #2 overall, but I wouldn’t exactly be confident about it. 

[Geezy]

36 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

Sure there’s a reason…. He’s 6 foot tall and also not that intelligent. Riley’s system makes receivers open and reads easy. 

what about him makes him unintelligent? Or are you just making stuff up again?

[Geezy]

24 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

I mean I’m still drafting Williams #2 overall, but I wouldn’t exactly be confident about it. 

but hes short and not smart lo if you stood on that he wouldnt be worth the #2 pick

[Geezy]

I think Caleb is trying to do too much and live up to his hype. SC is not as talented as many people think(who on offense is draftable besides CW) and lets not even start on the defensive side of the ball. I think USC was overrated due to CW, its not like they have a bunch of 5 stars all over the field. The main issue for me is his tendency to hold onto the ball and not take what the defense gives him, which is understandable when your defense gives up 49 to Cal. 

I think Maye is a great prospect, and dont have a problem with anyone that has him over Williams. I think hes more of the prototype and probably a bit safer. I think CW is an elite playmaker that if he is honed in a bit gives you a top 5 type QB potentially. 

[Geezy]

i liked Levis in the draft, not at 7 for the Raiders but theres no way he shouldnt have went top 20 if guys like Kenny Pickett do lol dude has the size and arm talent team usually bet on. I know he didnt have the greatest season last year, but he balled in '21. 

[big_palooka]

21 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

For several different reasons, Levis was off of a lot of boards and justifiably so- even if he pans out. He wasn't a 1st round quality prospect at the end of the day, the Titans just might have struck gold. No crow necessary- No way Levis looks as good here right now. Sitting for a bit likely helped him, and Josh would've had to start him if we took him. 

As for this year, I anticipate some good debate about different QBs depending on where we wind up picking and who declares. I'm a Penix guy, Palooka is a McCarthy guy, etc. There's gonna be differences. I'd take Penix in the 1st, I have that much faith. To me, he's a 1st round quality QB. Then again, I 100% understand he probably goes in the 2nd or 3rd (and, hey, if we want to hold off til then, great). I won't be mad not taking him top 10, I wouldn't be mad taking McCarthy over him. So on, so forth. 

I do think there's going to be aarge majority that ultimately agrees on who we shouldn't take though. Williams ain't it. Bo Nix ain't it. Maye is a safe prospect at least, McCarthy should be alright, Pratt, Penix, yada yada. 

QBs this year 100% off my list:

Williams

Nix

Ewers

I'm just not seeing any hype with them. Everyone else has their own warts that may or may not make them 1st round worthy, but I can be persuaded.

Disagree with you on Nix. He has the arm and mobility, but wins me over with his intangibles. He's poise, operates calmly in the pocket to find receivers. Has been nails in hostile road environment. He's the point guard in that offense dishing it out with accuracy, anticipation and completing 78% of his passes which is unheard of. 

He's consistent, competitive and displays great leadership. He has a shot to lead them to the playoff.

Most his detractors I find point to his time at Auburn and his age. Neither of which bother me.

[Tank4Drake]

27 minutes ago, Geezy said:

what about him makes him unintelligent? Or are you just making stuff up again?

When you play bad against good teams and good defenses, it’s usually a sign of either 1) Poor Intelligence or 2) Slow Mental Processor. Or both. It’s Carr’s case, it was both. He scored a 20 on the wonderlic and was never the greatest reading defenses while the ball was snapped, he was checkmated often. For Rosen, he was smart, but the slowest mental processor of the past couple decades. Light years to move from one read to another. 
 

When you play great against bad teams and bad defenses and bad against good teams and good defenses, it’s a mental problem 100% of the time, not a physical problem. 

Although Caleb’s height does him no favors. You can find QB’s 6’ and shorter that have had great careers like Drew Brees, but most QB’s fail with that height. Or maybe “fail” is a strong word, but they are never a Top 10 QB usually. People love saying “Drew Brees” and “Russell Wilson” like small examples somehow overcome the extremely large data pool of 6’ and under QB’s failing. Even 6’1” and under has a horrendous hit rate. 

26 minutes ago, Geezy said:

but hes short and not smart lo if you stood on that he wouldnt be worth the #2 pick

Still has a lot of potential and good QB’s are hard to come by. 

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Disagree with you on Nix. He has the arm and mobility, but wins me over with his intangibles. He's poise, operates calmly in the pocket to find receivers. Has been nails in hostile road environment. He's the point guard in that offense dishing it out with accuracy, anticipation and completing 78% of his passes which is unheard of. 

He's consistent, competitive and displays great leadership. He has a shot to lead them to the playoff.

Most his detractors I find point to his time at Auburn and his age. Neither of which bother me.

Nix just doesn't do it for me. Part of it is definitely the Auburn stigma. Age I could care less about until they're Brandon Weeden lol. Get a guy at 25, if he starts and is good for 10 years, totally worth it. 

And I'm a Duck guy. I want to like Nix, just as I wanted to like Mariota and Herbert, but I've yet to fall in love with a UO QB since Dixon.....and by damn that frigging injury tanked him. 

[CaliforniaKid7]

16 hours ago, Geezy said:

I think Caleb is trying to do too much and live up to his hype. SC is not as talented as many people think(who on offense is draftable besides CW) and lets not even start on the defensive side of the ball. I think USC was overrated due to CW, its not like they have a bunch of 5 stars all over the field. The main issue for me is his tendency to hold onto the ball and not take what the defense gives him, which is understandable when your defense gives up 49 to Cal. 

I think Maye is a great prospect, and dont have a problem with anyone that has him over Williams. I think hes more of the prototype and probably a bit safer. I think CW is an elite playmaker that if he is honed in a bit gives you a top 5 type QB potentially. 

SC has offensive talent. 
 

Lloyd is an NFL caliber RB and top 2 in the PAC. Rice/Washington/Branch will all be NFL caliber guys. OL has talent but hasn’t gelled well that’s for sure. It has looked off but he’s still having a good year statistically. We’ll see how the next few weeks go. Will say a lot.