true2form Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 18 hours ago, big_palooka said: How much have you seen!?! Because those are two of the most off base statement I've seen regarding McCarthy. He has an absolute cannon for an arm and can rip it on the run. He has elite velocity and can make throws a lot of QBs can't. I'm not a big fan of JJ, but you're correct arm strength is not a weakness of his. Ball placement/accuracy would be more of a weakness. Been waiting for this time of the year too. Finally Michigan will play someone who is ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I think AOC's ceiling is fairly limited tbh, he's not dynamic in any way, shape or form. A game manager type can work for a stacked team but I think you're sacrificing a lot passing on a QB this year in hopes he becomes an average starter. I want the franchise guy in the building that we can build around for the next decade. It's definitely limited in terms of highlight reel play. But I also tend to ascribe by the rule of not selling out for a fancy QB unless your whole team just sucks. More often than not, it seems like the better QBs (maybe not as prospects, but more successful in the league) tend to go later in the draft- or at least later in the 1st. The Ravens and Chiefs didn't need to sell out to find their franchise QB. Ditto the Packers with Rodgers. Then you have the Jalens, Daks, Kirks of the world who slip through the cracks. As far as O'Connell goes, I don't see him ever being a consistent top 8 QB. He's not stopping me from taking a QB if one falls to me in the right spot. But, if his play Sunday was any indication, he changes the math a bit. We don't have to reach or give up the farm just to get someone. At worst, O'Connell has thus far shown he can actually play as opposed to guys like Justin Fields or Zach Wilson or any other incoming rookie who has never taken a snap of NFL ball. By default, that makes his value a bit a higher to me. Essentially, if a QB slips, take him. If a guy makes sense, take him. But we don't have the gaping hole if O'Connell shows well. We could punt to 2025 (though I wouldn't). But there's likely no reason to pass on other talent at positions of need just to take a QB just "because". If we cam ride O'Connell for a year while building the roster, great. If the right guy falls in our lap, great. Personally, I think a 2nd tier QB prospect (say QB3 to QB5ish) on a good team is better than a superstar prospect on a bad team. My mind may change depending on who stays in school at this point though. There's A LOT of guys I have some level of interest in that may not even declare for 2024 simply because of the numbers. If too many go back to school, I'm leaning towards the 2025 class. Right now, there's like 7 or 8 names being thrown around as 1st round possibilities in here alone (Williams, Maye, McCarthy, Nix, Penix, Travis, Pratt, Ewers?) Still got some guysbnot getting day 1 hype yet but could. Risers, fallers. Once declarations and scouting season get under way, who knows where that number will be. Could be a 3 man race, could be 10. For now though, O'Connell is our guy and I hope he makes us second guess bringing another QB in to take his job. I don't want us not to, but I want to have that little voice in the back of my head questioning the need. That's a good place to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said: For now though, O'Connell is our guy and I hope he makes us second guess bringing another QB in to take his job. I don't want us not to, but I want to have that little voice in the back of my head questioning the need. That's a good place to be. We should have a pretty good idea of what we have with him based on the last 9 games of the season with what appears to be a competent head coach and play caller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Just now, NYRaider said: We should have a pretty good idea of what we have with him based on the last 9 games of the season with what appears to be a competent head coach and play caller. Yup. I mean, even if he balls out though, I'm looking at QBs. Just not sweating it. Hopefully all 3 fill their roles to a degree that it makes any changes difficult. My guess is Pierce leaves, Hardigree lands an OC gig somewhere, and Aiden becomes our bridge QB and a valuable trade chip for 2025/2026. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Yup. I mean, even if he balls out though, I'm looking at QBs. Just not sweating it. Hopefully all 3 fill their roles to a degree that it makes any changes difficult. My guess is Pierce leaves, Hardigree lands an OC gig somewhere, and Aiden becomes our bridge QB and a valuable trade chip for 2025/2026. I honestly think there's a decent chance that we retain Kelley and Pierce going into next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I honestly think there's a decent chance that we retain Kelley and Pierce going into next year. Agreed, and it will likely be the wrong move. Mark thinks he's doing the right thing, rectifying the situation with Bisaccia by keeping AP. Or he's sold on Champ who he nearly hired, who in turn keeps AP. Either way, all the rah rah Raiders of old stuff is great and all. But unless AP coaches a signature win against KC, I'm not buying. Same standard I held for Bisaccia who was blown out twice by them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, big_palooka said: Either way, all the rah rah Raiders of old stuff is great and all. But unless AP coaches a signature win against KC, I'm not buying. Same standard I held for Bisaccia who was blown out twice by them. Agreed. The Friday Night Lights stuff is cool for the fans but you need a master schemer to actually compete with the big dogs in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Agreed. The Friday Night Lights stuff is cool for the fans but you need a master schemer to actually compete with the big dogs in the NFL. Or hire an expert staff. And my man was a LB coach for AZ State 2 years ago. What connections does he realistically have? AP would need to blow socks off to think a dude who started his career as a LB coach in 2018 is ready for a full time head coaching gig. More to coaching than being well liked and giving rah rah catch phrases. Really interested to see how he responds when the team is punched in the mouth. That is where Bisaccia failed. KC punched his team in the mouth. His response was to kick a FG down 35 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Or hire an expert staff. And my man was a LB coach for AZ State 2 years ago. What connections does he realistically have? AP would need to blow socks off to think a dude who started his career as a LB coach in 2018 is ready for a full time head coaching gig. More to coaching than being well liked and giving rah rah catch phrases. Really interested to see how he responds when the team is punched in the mouth. That is where Bisaccia failed. KC punched his team in the mouth. His response was to kick a FG down 35 points. Way I look at AP is this: If he took over in week 16, would he be a candidate for next year? No. He didn't. He took over before mid-season, from a positional unit coach. He has time to make an impact, but he has a lot to prove regardless of how much I appreciate his passion and the results from Sunday. Honestly, I wonder how the decision to name him interim was made. Lack of long connection to McDaniels? Unproven and a decent fall guy just in case? Player opinion? Nothing wrong with him, just curious. I feel like it was a player-motivated choice, which is great and all, but probably not conducive to a long term situation. Great choice for an interim in a pinch. Just means he has his work cut out for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 On 11/5/2023 at 8:44 AM, Humble_Beast said: true about Pacheco. However, Pacheco would have been a great RB2 Pachecho could even be a good starter on a RB by committee team. I just don’t think he’s a workhorse. Nonetheless, RBs like him Are definitely valuable to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, big_palooka said: More to coaching than being well liked and giving rah rah catch phrases. Really interested to see how he responds when the team is punched in the mouth. That is where Bisaccia failed. KC punched his team in the mouth. His response was to kick a FG down 35 points. one could argue, Bisaccia responded to getting punched in the face by going 4-0 to make the playoffs no? since when do we talk about the end of slaughtering as how someone responds? If we had put up 21 points, wed be shouting who cares it was garbage time. you dont respond to a blow out, by scoring a meaningless TD at the end. You respond to a blow out, by going and beating the crap out the next team you play. (which we didnt do, but we got the W) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I wish mark davis took your approach and fired JMD when he kicked a FG down 21 on KC last year! I question why its a deal breaker for Rich, but not for JMD in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: I wish mark davis took your approach and fired JMD when he kicked a FG down 21 on KC last year! I question why its a deal breaker for Rich, but not for JMD in your opinion? He had to cut an $85M check to move off of JMD/DZ while it was free to move off of Rich. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarrodR86 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: The modern game is changing though, most of the top QBs in the league are pretty mobile now with huge arms. Obviously there are some exceptions with guys like Tua and Burrow but those dudes have unreal accuracy. I'd love for AOC to become GOATed, I just have my reservations and I think passing on a potential franchise QB because of him could hurt us long term. Thankfully it looks like we have 8 more games to evaluate him going into the off-season. Correct, i agree with you wholeheartedly. If AOC is marginal at best, I don’t think we can go into next year banking on improvement.. However, if we go 6-2 over the next 8 and sneak into the playoffs and he’s making the throws, making good decisions, consistently moving the offense, looking like the anti Zack Wilson, then I’d strongly consider adding more to the defense with a FRP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: All this JJ McCarthy talk has me intrigued. I haven't watched a second of him. The more QBs in this draft the better. Either we'll be lucky and one will fall to us or other elite players do with QBs going high. Win/win. It seems like every week a QB goes down and another team could potentially take one high This means we could have a top prospect fall to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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