Old Guy Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: JC. Here we go again. I said I'd rather have a tackle. But if we were do something like draft Bowers, it's easy to find a way to use him along with Kraft and Musgrave. I hope we do not have to find out how we would do that, as I'd rather have the tackle. And no. There may be a TE worth a top 10 pick. Two chances. Slim and none. Slim hasn't left town yet, but those bags are packed. My point was pretty simple, even if you missed it. IF we were to take Bowers, his likely role would be Deguara's. Really that simple. And yes, Bowers looks like an absolute legit stud. Edited November 16, 2023 by Old Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Old Guy said: And what has he done since? He's averaged under 40 yards per game and under 3.5 receptions per game. Has a total of 4 TD's halfway through his 3rd season. He fits what you'd describe as a bust for where he was drafted. He's exactly what you've been ranting against with the two stud LT's in the draft. LOL The MASSIVE difference, LT is a premium position, TE is not. So, what it comes down to is your argument is only valid when you deem it to be! LOL STOP, you're killing me with this comedy act. He got Desmond Ritter instead of Matt Ryan at QB. Settle down, Old Guy. Edited November 16, 2023 by ReasonablySober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, ReasonablySober said: He got Desmond Ritter instead of Matt Ryan at QB. Settle down, Old Guy. Are you saying a TE needs a upper tier QB to be worthy of a top 5 draft pick? If so, said TE is probably not worth a top 5 draft pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, squire12 said: Are you saying a TE needs a upper tier QB to be worthy of a top 5 draft pick? If so, said TE is probably not worth a top 5 draft pick Do you consider Matt Ryan at the end of his career upper tier? Because I don't. I think any WR or TE needs competent QB play, not worst in the league QB play. Watson looked like a future star playing with below average Aaron Rodgers. This season future stardom looks like much more of a question mark when he's playing with Jordan Love. That said, you can make the argument that we might be wasting Bowers by pairing him with Love. That's a legit argument to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Am I the only one who doesn't consider OT a pressing need? Tom's been good at OT. He looks like someone you pencil in. Walker has been less good, but I don't think he's been bad either. As a first time starter I think he's held up relatively well. Obviously he's got great size and he's still young. I don't consider myself an expert on offensive line play by any means, but let's put him up against some other 1st and 2nd year starters: Walker: 60.3 PFF grade Paris Johnson (#6 overall): 52.5 Darnell Wright (#10 overall): 63.1 Broderick Jones (#14 overall): 61.6 Anton Harrison (#27 overall): 54.8 Matthew Bergeron (#38 overall): 57.2 Ikem Ekwonu (#6 overall): 64.1 Evan Neal (#7 overall): 39.8 Charles Cross (#9 overall): 63.4 Trevor Penning (#19 overall): 53.5 That's every 1st and 2nd year offensive tackle taken in 1st or 2nd round the last two drafts. Given the investment in draft capital, Rasheed Walker compares pretty nicely to literally all of them, right? I'm not opposed to taking an offensive tackle next spring. I am opposed to taking one at #6. I think the Packers would be better off taking a generational type prospect in Bowers, a new QB, or trading up for Harrison Jr. if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, ReasonablySober said: Am I the only one who doesn't consider OT a pressing need? Tom's been good at OT. He looks like someone you pencil in. Walker has been less good, but I don't think he's been bad either. As a first time starter I think he's held up relatively well. Obviously he's got great size and he's still young. I don't consider myself an expert on offensive line play by any means, but let's put him up against some other 1st and 2nd year starters: Walker: 60.3 PFF grade Paris Johnson (#6 overall): 52.5 Darnell Wright (#10 overall): 63.1 Broderick Jones (#14 overall): 61.6 Anton Harrison (#27 overall): 54.8 Matthew Bergeron (#38 overall): 57.2 Ikem Ekwonu (#6 overall): 64.1 Evan Neal (#7 overall): 39.8 Charles Cross (#9 overall): 63.4 Trevor Penning (#19 overall): 53.5 That's every 1st and 2nd year offensive tackle taken in 1st or 2nd round the last two drafts. Given the investment in draft capital, Rasheed Walker compares pretty nicely to literally all of them, right? I'm not opposed to taking an offensive tackle next spring. I am opposed to taking one at #6. I think the Packers would be better off taking a generational type prospect in Bowers, a new QB, or trading up for Harrison Jr. if possible. As compared to TE where we just spent late 1st round draft capital last year on 2 players? We picked top 10 after Rodgers first year, we never did again his entire tenure here. This could be a cornerstone pick and needs to be used at a cornerstone position. QB (if we end up top 2), OT, EDGE, CB should be the only ones considered. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: As compared to TE where we just spent late 1st round draft capital last year on 2 players? We picked top 10 after Rodgers first year, we never did again his entire tenure here. This could be a cornerstone pick and needs to be used at a cornerstone position. QB (if we end up top 2), OT, EDGE, CB should be the only ones considered. Playing a little fast and loose with "late first round draft capital" aren't ya? A mid 2nd rounder and a mid 3rd rounder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Old Guy said: Of course, but history shows us two things. TE is not a premium position and teams routinely find really good ones later in the draft. Might be the most missed position when taking one in the first round. I am not questioning any of that. Let's say I can guarantee you Tony Gonzalez. How early do you take him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, ReasonablySober said: Playing a little fast and loose with "late first round draft capital" aren't ya? A mid 2nd rounder and a mid 3rd rounder? That's the takeaway? Seems you agree with everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 If there was a DB I thought was worthy of taking high in round one I'd be all over it. But there isn't. King, McKinstrey, DeJean, and Wiggins are all guys you'd draft late 1st or later in a normal draft. There isn't a Witherspoon, Stingley, Gardner, Hamilton, Horn, Surtain, Fitzpatrick, or Derwin James here. I like Dallas Turner a lot (I like Laiatu Latu more but he's a walking injury risk) but the Packers just extended Gary and they used a 1st on Van Ness a year ago. I already made my case again an OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I am not questioning any of that. Let's say I can guarantee you Tony Gonzalez. How early do you take him? Bingo. Let's say I'm giving you Gronk, Kelce, or Kittle. Who isn't taking that in the top ten? You can say tight end isn't a premium position, but if you actually have the best of the best it's EXTREMELY valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 2 hours ago, ReasonablySober said: Do you consider Matt Ryan at the end of his career upper tier? Because I don't. I think any WR or TE needs competent QB play, not worst in the league QB play. Watson looked like a future star playing with below average Aaron Rodgers. This season future stardom looks like much more of a question mark when he's playing with Jordan Love. That said, you can make the argument that we might be wasting Bowers by pairing him with Love. That's a legit argument to have. Love has a passer rating of over 100 when targeting Reed, Musgrave and Wicks. 85 when targeting Doubs. 37 when targeting Watson. Love may not be totally blameless for Watson's regression, but it's not like he hasn't been able to take advantage of his other receiver's talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Brat&Beer said: Love has a passer rating of over 100 when targeting Reed, Musgrave and Wicks. 85 when targeting Doubs. 37 when targeting Watson. Love may not be totally blameless for Watson's regression, but it's not like he hasn't been able to take advantage of his other receiver's talents. You may have seen the stats floating around the last couple days but if you haven't, Watson has seen the highest rate of uncatchable balls in the entire league, and he's seen double coverage at a higher rate than anyone in the NFL. Watson is making life easier for Doubs, Wicks, Musgrave, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 8 hours ago, Packerraymond said: Randy Moss would struggle in the Falcons passing attack. What's your point? I never once said Pitts was good value, just that he was an elite pass catch prospect. He still is, on a **** team in a **** system. You are as a matter of fact and not fiction an actual turd nugget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Maybe a topic for a different thread, but I'd 100% be into the idea of trading for Pitts if all it would take is a 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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