Who is coming at Edge?

[dll2000]

Poles has said he is still looking to bring in another edge player at some point before season.

Question is who will it be?

FA Possibilities:

1. Leonard Floyd - interesting to know how Bears fans would feel about that.   He was very disappointing as a top pick, but was never a horrible player and is a better football player now than he ever was when with Bears.   

He is a good run defender, sets a nice edge and is good I would say for roughly 9 sacks a year.  He got 9 sacks last year.   He is 30 years old.  Leaving cost out of it, he would be my first choice of current FA market and would be a nice addition to our DL.   

2. Frank Clark - I believe Clark tends to get in trouble.  He had 5 sacks last year, but plays pretty well in big games.  He plays run well.   He is 29 nearing 30.

3. Yannick Ngakoue - He had 9.5 sacks last year.  Is best pure pass rusher on this list and youngest at 28.  He doesn't play run well.   Nobody really is interested in keeping him around long, to me that says a lot and raises red flags.  I don't want him either unless he is super cheap.

4. Jadeveon Clowney - He is 30 years old as well.  He has a had few real good years.  But, a lot of injuries and is mostly disappointing, inconsistent and often wants a lot of money.  I don't want him.  

Any of these deals would likely be a one year deal and more costly than Poles has them valued.  I am just not sure Poles wants to win that badly in 2023.   Seems like he is still building and wants improvement.     

So I am thinking if another edge comes, it probably won't be one of these guys unless they significantly drop asking price, it will be a cheaper deal from a late release of a veteran player from someone else's roster.

But I am usually wrong on Poles FA pick ups thus far.   So who knows?

What do you guys think?

[StLunatic88]

41 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Poles has said he is still looking to bring in another edge player at some point before season.

I think too many are getting their hopes up from a quote that is almost surely GM speak.

They aren’t looking to make a massive move to try and be a “contender” or something resembling that. So while we will likely add a bodie(s) to the position group, it’s not likely to be a major impact guy unless someone becomes very disgruntled and we trade for them. And even then, that seems more like a next offseason move than just before TC. 

We will scoop up some fringe roster guys when cuts happen, but that’s probably it. 

[dll2000]

2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I think too many are getting their hopes up from a quote that is almost surely GM speak.

They aren’t looking to make a massive move to try and be a “contender” or something resembling that. So while we will likely add a bodie(s) to the position group, it’s not likely to be a major impact guy unless someone becomes very disgruntled and we trade for them. And even then, that seems more like a next offseason move than just before TC. 

We will scoop up some fringe roster guys when cuts happen, but that’s probably it. 

As I said, I would be surprised if we actually signed one of above FAs I listed. 

Bears twitter and Bears blogs endlessly speculating on which edge it will be.     

My guess is they would like to see if either Gipson or Robinson can be better this year with another year of experience, some more talent between them and a better rotation.  

They also likely want to conserve some ammo to do extensions for anyone at or near end of contract who suddenly balls out and they want to extend.  

 I am also honestly procrastinating from a couple of work projects I need to do and I wanted something to discuss.  

 

[AZBearsFan]

I think they’ve got enough bodies for base downs but they could really use a situational pass rusher, and from that group that’s Ngakoue. I don’t care if he only plays 20-25 snaps a game - he brings something to the table that we desperately need. He’s a guy who can make difference making plays on 3rd down. 

[Ty21]

Isn’t the point of edging to not come?

[Madmike90]

On 6/1/2023 at 3:28 AM, AZBearsFan said:

I think they’ve got enough bodies for base downs but they could really use a situational pass rusher, and from that group that’s Ngakoue. I don’t care if he only plays 20-25 snaps a game - he brings something to the table that we desperately need. He’s a guy who can make difference making plays on 3rd down. 

Ngakoue is probably off the table after saying he is waiting to sign with a contender...

I agree they have enough bodies in base but I would still be all for adding a sure thing...Frank Clark would just be an excellent fit for a season...as would Justin Houston but I think he only comes back for Baltimore...Carlos Dunlap would be a good addition for a season as well...

I terms of a 3rd down speed rusher I don't think he is on the streets right now...I think we will find that type of guy come cut time.

[dll2000]

 

[AZBearsFan]

51 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

 

Floyd always felt like a long shot to me. Different regime and what not, but there’s a great chance because of how his career played out here and how he was viewed by most fans while he was a Bear that being a Bear was some of Floyd’s least favorite football of his life. Unfortunately there was probably very little that could have been done to make that not a factor. 

[StLunatic88]

22 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Ngakoue is probably off the table after saying he is waiting to sign with a contender...

Yannick, Clark, Clowney and Floyd all seem like guys who are (were) waiting to see which Contender would give them the most Money/|Opportunity

But Ill ask again, signing Frank Clark, while obviously better than the talent we currently have, what is he doing for this Franchise? Maybe he ends up getting an extra win for us this year? But again, long term, what is that doing for us? Unless there is still a large chunk of dollars we have to spend (and we wouldnt want to give that to JJ for some reason) I cant see why we would bring that type of player in at this point

[Sugashane]

8 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yannick, Clark, Clowney and Floyd all seem like guys who are (were) waiting to see which Contender would give them the most Money/|Opportunity

But Ill ask again, signing Frank Clark, while obviously better than the talent we currently have, what is he doing for this Franchise? Maybe he ends up getting an extra win for us this year? But again, long term, what is that doing for us? Unless there is still a large chunk of dollars we have to spend (and we wouldnt want to give that to JJ for some reason) I cant see why we would bring that type of player in at this point

I'm all for having a cheap veteran mentor, but I think unless there is a camp cut that intrigues Poles and Eberflus that the Bears' team is pretty much set.

 

I'd rather rotate young guys and get them live reps. I know Dexter and Pickens are DTs but I'd be really happy to see them rotate with Green, Gipson and Robinson at DE. Get guys rotating all over - and Walker is a better 3T than DE. Or at least was last year from what little I have seen. Let guys work around and see where they fit. Physically McPhee would rarely be thought of being an OLB, but he did it well (within the scheme obviously) and would kick into 3T in packages. Chris Jones goes all over the line. Just get these guys on the field and let them take their lumps now rather than holding them all off.

[dll2000]

I don't buy into idea that most guys are looking for a contender.

Maybe for some guys like Von Miller that is a factor.   Guys who have already been paid out very big contracts and want a ring.  

For most guys, regardless if they have been paid before, they are simply going to whoever will pay them the most.  Contender is a bonus.

For UDFAs or lower tier FAs, it is different, they look not only at who will pay the most, but who has least depth at a position. 

Staying power and earning a starting job is also a big factor over money, because long term money has to be factored in.

I remember in 2017,  I was corresponding on twitter with an UDFA from a small school before draft and I thought he could go in late rounds.   He didn't.  He was an edge player and he signed with Baltimore as an UDFA right away.   I don't remember his name.  

Baltimore at time had two solid vets starting in Terrell Suggs and Brent Urban.   Then they drafted an edge in 2nd round and two more in 3rd that same year.   They also had recently drafted Zadarius Smith in 2015 who was a promising player who ended up panning out.  

Baltimore was offering him the most money, but he didn't stick.   There was almost no chance he could make the team with all those guys in front of him that had zero chance of being cut.   That was a terrible decision by him to go there.

I remember just telling him good luck and to try to win every rep in practice.  I don't know who was advising him, but he got terrible advice.

 

 

[JibjeResearch]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:20 AM, dll2000 said:

Poles has said he is still looking to bring in another edge player at some point before season.

Question is who will it be?

FA Possibilities:

1. Leonard Floyd - interesting to know how Bears fans would feel about that.   He was very disappointing as a top pick, but was never a horrible player and is a better football player now than he ever was when with Bears.   

He is a good run defender, sets a nice edge and is good I would say for roughly 9 sacks a year.  He got 9 sacks last year.   He is 30 years old.  Leaving cost out of it, he would be my first choice of current FA market and would be a nice addition to our DL.   

2. Frank Clark - I believe Clark tends to get in trouble.  He had 5 sacks last year, but plays pretty well in big games.  He plays run well.   He is 29 nearing 30.

3. Yannick Ngakoue - He had 9.5 sacks last year.  Is best pure pass rusher on this list and youngest at 28.  He doesn't play run well.   Nobody really is interested in keeping him around long, to me that says a lot and raises red flags.  I don't want him either unless he is super cheap.

4. Jadeveon Clowney - He is 30 years old as well.  He has a had few real good years.  But, a lot of injuries and is mostly disappointing, inconsistent and often wants a lot of money.  I don't want him.  

Any of these deals would likely be a one year deal and more costly than Poles has them valued.  I am just not sure Poles wants to win that badly in 2023.   Seems like he is still building and wants improvement.     

So I am thinking if another edge comes, it probably won't be one of these guys unless they significantly drop asking price, it will be a cheaper deal from a late release of a veteran player from someone else's roster.

But I am usually wrong on Poles FA pick ups thus far.   So who knows?

What do you guys think?

I have a different take.  I think the DE position is decent. 

The Bears will get more push from the new DTs.  The DEs will be more effective when the DTs create the push or not get pushed backward.  The LB position was poor last year, thus the Bears allowed big runs.

The combination of a stronger DT core and an excellent LB core will strengthen the run defense and improve the pass rush.

All of this I assume that Tyrique Stevenson will win the CB2 and dominate as good as JJ.  In a Tampa2, when the 2 CBs are strong, the QB will require more time.  Our LBs will dominate the TEs/RBs.  I see many coverage sacks or throw away plays.

I'm betting on Tyrique to win and apply the multiplier effect to the defense by shutting down the other half of the field (played as well as Johnson's rookie season).  If this happens, the Bears will be great this year, assuming Fields will improve as expected from year 2.

[dll2000]

Just now, JibjeResearch said:

I have a different take.  I think the DE position is decent. 

The Bears will get more push from the new DTs.  The DEs will be more effective when the DTs create the push or not get pushed backward.  The LB position was poor last year, thus the Bears allowed big runs.

The combination of a stronger DT core and an excellent LB core will strengthen the run defense and improve the pass rush.

All of this I assume that Tyrique Stevenson will win the CB2 and dominate as good as JJ.  In a Tampa2, when the 2 CBs are strong, the QB will require more time.  Our LBs will dominate the TEs/RBs.  I see many coverage sacks or throw away plays.

I'm betting on Tyrique to win and apply the multiplier effect to the defense by shutting down the other half of the field (played as well as Johnson's rookie season).  If this happens, the Bears will be great this year, assuming Fields will improve as expected from year 2.

Stevenson is certainly getting a lot of accolades in OTAs.

So did Gordon and he struggled early in actual games.   So I am taking more of a wait and see approach.   Good news is certainly better than bad news.  

I agree though.  I think the bigger bodies up front in Walker on edge and Billings and Dexter in middle will have a multiplier effect on DL.

I don't think our LBs will dominate in coverage.   That really doesn't happen in NFL from LB position.   But I think Edmunds being so long and fast is a factor and it was in Buffalo last year for sure.    

That being said our DEs are still subpar as pass rushers even with improvement.   They just aren't as good as other players in league at position.   But I don't believe they will be the complete non-factor they were last year when it was bad across the board on DL aside from Justin Jones.

 

[AZBearsFan]

3 hours ago, JibjeResearch said:

The combination of a stronger DT core and an excellent LB core will strengthen the run defense and improve the pass rush.

I agree with this. With our DL being a sieve against the run most of the year plus just trailing most of the time we were seriously lacking in obvious pass rush situations. If this group can stop the run, and it looks on paper like one that should be able to do so pretty well, then that opens up more opportunities on 3rd and 7+ where we’ll see deeper drops and longer routes having to be run where even non-elite pass rushers have more time to get to the QB. A rapid fire pass on 3rd and 3 is probably a first down, where one on 3rd and 7+ is more often than not going to lead to a punt which situationally is just as good as a sack anyway. 

[Ty21]

 

what’s the most you’d be willing to give up in order to feel like you won the trade? If it’s a 4th, I don’t think twice about it. If it’s a 3rd or more I’d be considerably more critical of him while he’s here