SemperFeist Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 People are telling on themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 To me it's obvious that Kirk is the best QB in the NFCN. Yes, Goff had a good season last year, while piloting an up and coming young team. Statistically, Kirk didn't have his best season, but for the first time since I watched him play Kirk passed my eyeball test! His toughness and grit was an example his teammates drew energy from. He took more chances on higher risk passes...and, yes threw more interceptions. He had much better pocket awareness which allowed routes to develop. I thought it was his best season as a pro. To me, stats don't tell the whole story. Intangibles ARE important. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, CriminalMind said: I went with Goff Shocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 "Kirk doesn't win games!" - Wins 13 games. "Kirk isn't aggressive enough!" - Leads numerous 4th quarter comebacks. "Kirk is too aggressive and threw 14 interceptions!" - First: Lol what? Second: Bound to happen when you're playing with a historically bad defense that makes you take chances to win games. "Kirk isn't a leader and his teammates probably hate him and JJ is going to want to leave!" - 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ozzy said: Goff last year had 7 INTs, Cousins had 14. Patrick Mahomes had 12 INTs last year (and also has had double-digit INTs the yr before)...so by that logic, Goff is a better QB than Mahomes? You're not making a good argument. I'm no huge fan of Kirk either, but he's better than Goff (although the gap has closed in the last couple of years). He doesn't have the freedom in the offense like Kirk does now. He clearly doesn't have the pressure either from the defense (because his offensive line is better) or from the public because he's playing in Detroit as compared to LA. Kirk's completion percentage, YPA, and passer rating over his career are higher, while their TD:Int ratio is fairly similar (Kirk is 2.4, Goff is 2.2) and they also have a similar YPG. If you go by the advanced stats on PFR, you can see the clear difference between the 2 as Goff has nearly 100 more poor throws than Kirk does despite being in the league 4 years less. Edited June 23, 2023 by swede700 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, vike daddy said: So, Cousins lost games for us over the last two years... I thought it was pretty obvious the defenses did that for us, and our sub standard o-lines, but then again we live in an age of rewriting narratives and alternative facts. Who needs alternative facts when you can just plagiarize the facts as a major fact checking site (right, Snopes?) Anyways, my prediction that Goff will be better than Cousins for this one season isn't that outlandish. Players find their peak, or they have anomalies (like Geno Smith last season). I think this is the season that Goff is better than Kirk. Goff is my #2 QB in the NFC this season, behind Hurts. Cousins is #3, followed by Carr and then Dak. Edited June 23, 2023 by SteelKing728 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: "Kirk doesn't win games!" - Wins 13 games. "Kirk isn't aggressive enough!" - Leads numerous 4th quarter comebacks. "Kirk is too aggressive and threw 14 interceptions!" - First: Lol what? Second: Bound to happen when you're playing with a historically bad defense that makes you take chances to win games. "Kirk isn't a leader and his teammates probably hate him and JJ is going to want to leave!" - Last year was an awful season and completely deceptive, arguably one of the worst 13-4 teams in NFL history. Honestly who was shocked they lost in the playoffs after how the season went and they barely win games? Record 11 wins in one score games? How did that go in the playoffs if the team was so clutch and so poised? Overall the team gave up 3 more points than they scored last year, and it was even wider than that before the last game of the season against the Bears. "In a sport with so few contests per season, we tend to get a better picture of true performance by drilling down into more granular indicators. Pythagorean expected wins, which estimates a team’s record based on point differential, gave the Vikings 8.4 wins. By that measure, they are the luckiest, most random, most unreasonably successful — whatever you want to call it — team to log a .700 or better winning percentage in the Super Bowl era" Win close games great, the year previous to that they lost them. Either way both were failed seasons, great teams do not just barely win games. Best win last year was what, the first game against the Packers? The only convincing win all season against a good team, then later in the year they lose to that same team 41-17. Last year sucked and hopefully this up coming season is not like last year. Next year they have the Eagles, Chargers, Chiefs, 49ers and Packers in 4 out those 8 first games. Then end the season the last four with the Bengals and Packers and the Lions in between them both. Easier in the middle potentially but that is legit competition starting out with 3 out of the first 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Overall the team gave up 3 more points than they scored last year yep. Cousins is an obviously poor defensive mastermind. wait... whut...? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, swede700 said: Patrick Mahomes had 12 INTs last year (and also has had double-digit INTs the yr before)...so by that logic, Goff is a better QB than Mahomes? You're not making a good argument. Yeah Kirk Cousins is Patrick Mahomes, ok, nice logic yourself. Defend Cousins all you want, the dude freaking sucks and is a perennial loser until proven otherwise. Oh it is not all his fault, sure, but fact is in the NFL you are the QB and you are ultimately judged on winning and losing. Give me Jared Goff right now all day. Even Dak Prescott gets ripped on for similar reasons to Kirk Cousins and even he has more playoff wins. Who is in the better place Dallas or Minnesota right now? I would say Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be Whisper words of wisdom, let it be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Yeah Kirk Cousins is Patrick Mahomes, ok, nice logic yourself. Defend Cousins all you want, the dude freaking sucks and is a perennial loser until proven otherwise. Oh it is not all his fault, sure, but fact is in the NFL you are the QB and you are ultimately judged on winning and losing. Give me Jared Goff right now all day. Even Dak Prescott gets ripped on for similar reasons to Kirk Cousins and even he has more playoff wins. Who is in the better place Dallas or Minnesota right now? I would say Dallas. I never said Kirk Cousins was Patrick Mahomes. You made a poor comparison, don't try and turn it around on me as if I did. You can have Jared Goff. If I had my druthers, I'd have neither, but you give me only those 2 options, I take Cousins 9 out of 10 times. You only have to actually watch both of them play and know that Kirk is the better QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Relax Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Last year was an awful season and completely deceptive, arguably one of the worst 13-4 teams in NFL history. Honestly who was shocked they lost in the playoffs after how the season went and they barely win games? Record 11 wins in one score games? How did that go in the playoffs if the team was so clutch and so poised? Overall the team gave up 3 more points than they scored last year, and it was even wider than that before the last game of the season against the Bears. "In a sport with so few contests per season, we tend to get a better picture of true performance by drilling down into more granular indicators. Pythagorean expected wins, which estimates a team’s record based on point differential, gave the Vikings 8.4 wins. By that measure, they are the luckiest, most random, most unreasonably successful — whatever you want to call it — team to log a .700 or better winning percentage in the Super Bowl era" Win close games great, the year previous to that they lost them. Either way both were failed seasons, great teams do not just barely win games. Best win last year was what, the first game against the Packers? The only convincing win all season against a good team, then later in the year they lose to that same team 41-17. Last year sucked and hopefully this up coming season is not like last year. Next year they have the Eagles, Chargers, Chiefs, 49ers and Packers in 4 out those 8 first games. Then end the season the last four with the Bengals and Packers and the Lions in between them both. Easier in the middle potentially but that is legit competition starting out with 3 out of the first 5. I don't hear ANYONE claiming the Vikings were a great team last year. Yes, a lot of luck was involved, but you cannot deny that it was a great season to watch as a fan! Nor can you deny that the team got themselves into position to win those 11 one score games; AND a lot of that had to do with how Kirk played in the final minutes of those games. I think the word is "clutch." No team....none...in the whole history of sports...has ever been successful without a whole lot of "luck." Edited June 23, 2023 by Captain Relax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Kirk doesn’t win **wins 13 games** Those wins don’t count. Beautiful logic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 36 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: No team....none...in the whole history of sports...has ever been successful without a whole lot of "luck." Luck is the product of proper preparation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, Captain Relax said: I don't hear ANYONE claiming the Vikings were a great team last year. Yes, a lot of luck was involved, but you cannot deny that it was a great season to watch as a fan! Nor can you deny that the team got themselves into position to win those 11 one score games; AND a lot of that had to do with how Kirk played in the final minutes of those games. I think the word is "clutch." No team....none...in the whole history of sports...has ever been successful without a whole lot of "luck." Great season to watch as a fan? Having a physically inferior football team that got walked up and down the field defensively and was not physical at all offensively. That is fun to watch? Well I disagree with that one completely. A team where in the biggest games they payed their worst football outside of game one of the season, sure they beat the Bills but honestly the Bills blew that game and should have won it easily. The identity of the football team in many ways is a receiver dancing in the end zone to many? Arguably that has been the most successful thing about the Minnesota Vikings honestly over the past few seasons is that the griddy has taken off? That is just sad. 7 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Kirk doesn’t win **wins 13 games** Those wins don’t count. Beautiful logic Will anyone 10 years from now remember the 2022/23 Minnesota Vikings and their 13 wins? No they will not. Big mystery as to why? And are they currently better than the 49ers, Eagles, Dallas, Giants and possibly maybe even Green Bay or the Lions who are right there with them, not to mention Seattle who is damn promising? Not so sure about that one, so they have a massive step to take to even compete against those teams in the NFC alone, not to mention the AFC where Chiefs, Bengals, Bills, Dolphins, Jaguars, Chargers, Jets and the Ravens are all better than them as well. Best rosters win in football and the Vikings are far from being one of the best rosters. Eagles, Chiefs, 49ers and Bengals all went the farthest in the NFL last year, no mystery they are all the top four rosters in football, Bills possibly should have made it but were right behind the Bengals in that game obviously. No way the Vikings have a top 10 roster in the NFL so how exactly will they compete again? Kirk Cousins is the answer? He is clearly not some game changing player until proven otherwise in 11 seasons so far. The guy can take a hit I will give him that and stays healthy. But his availability has not equaled winning when it actually matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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