J-ALL-DAY Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Just now, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said: While I agree, Deebo is a very unique player, his job is just a collection of tasks. Deebo isn't the only guy in the world who can run and catch, he's just one of the very best. I don't think the team changes much of anything until it is time to change everything. I do not feel the change will be gradual, it will be one brutal offseason. But we are not there yet. For now, having guys that can keep the playbook in tact through injury. I mentioned having a back up CMC rather than a back up RB. It keeps the playbook and game plan in tact if CMC gets hurt. Having a guy who can read hot routes, catch, and still operate well in the outside zone is more important than having a guy who does traditional running back things that we don't actually do. In the same way, having a guy who can run the plays Deebo runs effectively could have value. He is not nearly as explosive as Deebo, but he runs pretty good routes and he could operate well enough to keep the playbook in tact. I am not going to get to the point of evaluating a players value relative to other prospects this year. I am mostly just trying to determine what type of value they bring in to the team. But what he does is simply not easy to duplicate. I don't care how many other receivers have similar builds to him or similar YAC ability in college, what he has in him is special. You are likely to be disappointed if you think someone can come in and just duplicate what he does. I don't know why we would want that though. We play to his strengths but the offense can still be successful in a different way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said: I have the niner top 30 visits in two categories. Perfect fits and giant question marks. Some guys do a lot of things the 49ers do, so they bring them in to make sure they are cool. Other guys aren't asked to do things the 9ers do, but have athletic traits the 49ers love. So they bring them in to determine whether they have the potential to operate from the 49ers system. I definitely see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 28 minutes ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said: I agree about Vaki. Something about the instincts on tape pop. I thought he was significantly faster than the 4.6. I think he would be perfect for returning the new kickoffs. I also talk about getting a back up CMC, not a back up "runningback". I think with the way he pops the angle route on the edge, picks up the inside zone, and understands edge blitzes he could be a good back up/rotational piece at RB. Every damn year we get a good traditional RB, he looks good on film, gets to camp and every one acts freakin surprised he is a traditional RB and not a weird hybrid. Then he never sees the field because he can't do the hybridy things CMC and Deebo do. I'm kinda hoping to not do that this year, and get a guy who does what we do. Random question(s), Which way do you think the 9ers will go at NB. Do you think they will get a safety hybrid like Ward or a corner hybrid like Lenior? How would you fill the extra corner/DB opening. I would bet money that their outside zone model that loved Elijah Mitchell so much adored Vaki's little sample size at running back lol. From the guys they've brought in (and because I don't think they want to pay Hufanga), I think that they want a more safety hybrid in the vein of Ward. It gives you so much schematic flexibility when you can have personnel fill multiple roles. In this vein, I like Bullard so much. You can ask him to be a box safety or a nickel or a two high or a single high in man or zone and he's going to do a job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 4 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: But what he does is simply not easy to duplicate. I don't care how many other receivers have similar builds to him or similar YAC ability in college, what he has in him is special. You are likely to be disappointed if you think someone can come in and just duplicate what he does. I don't know why we would want that though. We play to his strengths but the offense can still be successful in a different way. I never said duplicate. That is a math word that implies an impossible threshold. No player will ever duplicate another player. A duplicate is typically an exact copy. A replicate is something similar. Deebo doesn't ride a unicorn out there. Nobody can duplicate what Trent does, but we still have a back up player. In ideal conditions the back up player does as much of what the starter can do as possible. If Deebo is out, then there is no Deebo duplicate. The team shouldn't just stop running toss sweeps, screens, fly sweeps, slants, stop screens, etc. because Deebo is gone. If CMC goes down the team needs to continue to have a receiving back that can run hot routes. Having a backup that does different stuffs is like not having a back up at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 4 minutes ago, JIllg said: I would bet money that their outside zone model that loved Elijah Mitchell so much adored Vaki's little sample size at running back lol. From the guys they've brought in (and because I don't think they want to pay Hufanga), I think that they want a more safety hybrid in the vein of Ward. It gives you so much schematic flexibility when you can have personnel fill multiple roles. In this vein, I like Bullard so much. You can ask him to be a box safety or a nickel or a two high or a single high in man or zone and he's going to do a job. It's easy to see where he would fit in. He understands the corner blitz really well which would help with the hot routes and choice routes. Purdy is so good against 0 that having a guy who can pick up hots like CMC is the first thing I would want to add to the position. Vaki's weird experience probably helps him pick up this role faster. If he could also run the outside zone really well, he could have a ton of value to this team. I'll have to watch Bullard. I like the idea of a Safety hybrid in the role, but is there any Safety Hybrid in the league who has feet to keep up with Kupp or Nacua all day on a two way go? I prefer a guy like Andru Phillips, but I don't think that is the direction the team is going to go. It looks like they are really leaning into zone concepts this offeseason and year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said: It's easy to see where he would fit in. He understands the corner blitz really well which would help with the hot routes and choice routes. Purdy is so good against 0 that having a guy who can pick up hots like CMC is the first thing I would want to add to the position. Vaki's weird experience probably helps him pick up this role faster. If he could also run the outside zone really well, he could have a ton of value to this team. I'll have to watch Bullard. I like the idea of a Safety hybrid in the role, but is there any Safety Hybrid in the league who has feet to keep up with Kupp or Nacua all day on a two way go? I prefer a guy like Andru Phillips, but I don't think that is the direction the team is going to go. It looks like they are really leaning into zone concepts this offeseason and year. Andru Phillips is a player that has had a top 30 - that makes him quite likely to be one of the players they are strongly choosing between at any spot imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Hill was supposed to have a top 30, but it didn't happen. Looks like they aren't quitting him though. Another meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 17 minutes ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said: I never said duplicate. That is a math word that implies an impossible threshold. No player will ever duplicate another player. A duplicate is typically an exact copy. A replicate is something similar. Deebo doesn't ride a unicorn out there. Nobody can duplicate what Trent does, but we still have a back up player. In ideal conditions the back up player does as much of what the starter can do as possible. If Deebo is out, then there is no Deebo duplicate. The team shouldn't just stop running toss sweeps, screens, fly sweeps, slants, stop screens, etc. because Deebo is gone. If CMC goes down the team needs to continue to have a receiving back that can run hot routes. Having a backup that does different stuffs is like not having a back up at all. Sure, you can say replicate....but the main point is that just because you are getting rid of Deebo does not mean you need to find someone similar to him. No, I don't buy that at all. You just adjust your offense to your personnel. With Purdy and teams playing so much two high now a days, we need receivers that can win within 10-15 yards. You need crisp route runners and some toughness. There are many WRs that I would prefer over Corley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyAmIHere Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 43 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Sure, you can say replicate....but the main point is that just because you are getting rid of Deebo does not mean you need to find someone similar to him. No, I don't buy that at all. You just adjust your offense to your personnel. With Purdy and teams playing so much two high now a days, we need receivers that can win within 10-15 yards. You need crisp route runners and some toughness. There are many WRs that I would prefer over Corley. I agree. For a QB like Brock, I'd much rather have a WR like McConkey, a quick guy who can run precision routes and create separation in a matter of two seconds. Deebo was great for our run blocking OL and Jimmy G..who couldn't complete a pass beyond 6 yards. Just my opinion, but we are missing a quick separator and a deep threat; I feel like a guy like McConkey or Pearsall would give them both in one. Edited April 23 by WhyAmIHere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamq Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) I would much rather take Legette than AD Mitchell or Ladd, but I think all those guys would be gone by the time our 2nd rounder comes up & not worth taking at 31. If I could use a crystal ball and know Polk is available at 63 I would jump all over that Edited April 23 by adamq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Sure, you can say replicate....but the main point is that just because you are getting rid of Deebo does not mean you need to find someone similar to him. No, I don't buy that at all. You just adjust your offense to your personnel. With Purdy and teams playing so much two high now a days, we need receivers that can win within 10-15 yards. You need crisp route runners and some toughness. There are many WRs that I would prefer over Who's getting rid of Deebo? Where did that come from? Do you love Deebo Samuel and what he does, or do you prefer a crisp route runner? Are you advocating for replacing Deebo with a draft guy? Right now Deebo backs up CMC, and CMC backs up Deebo. It's a lot of miles for both dudes. It's because we add "wide reveivers" and "running backs" that do things the team doesn't really do very often, rather than guys that do the things we do. Edited April 23 by Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 23 minutes ago, adamq said: I would much rather take Legette than AD Mitchell or Ladd, but I think all those guys would be gone by the time our 2nd rounder comes up & not worth taking at 31. If I could use a crystal ball and know Polk is available at 63 I would jump all over that Legette's lack of route experience bugs me. Give me real WRs who use expert route running to get open over gimmicks or physical attributes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyAmIHere Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Chrissooner49er said: Legette's lack of route experience bugs me. Give me real WRs who use expert route running to get open over gimmicks or physical attributes. Same. I want a beast route runner for Brock. Legette is so raw, I don't think we have time for that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, JIllg said: Andru Phillips is a player that has had a top 30 - that makes him quite likely to be one of the players they are strongly choosing between at any spot imo. Could a belicheck style match up platoon work here? Match WR with CB player, then match TE with a safety player? It sounds fun, but usually one guy wins out over the other. It's a cool problem to have though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyAmIHere Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Jermaine Burton would be hard to pass up if he's there in the 4th. Damn hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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