Justin Fields

[G08]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

Still not sold he is safe in Atlanta you know.

I'd love to have him here but I think he's safe. I actually am worried they are going to beat us on Sunday, if I'm being honest.

[Madmike90]

7 minutes ago, G08 said:

I'd love to have him here but I think he's safe. I actually am worried they are going to beat us on Sunday, if I'm being honest.

The Falcons are one of those teams this year that you never truly know what your going to get...either team could win by 17 😂

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Hello Bears fans! Just went down a Justin Fields rabbithole on twitter and wanted to stop by here to get your thoughts. Ill preface this with also saying Im a OSU fan who has been following Fields career pretty closely in the NFL hoping he does well and a lot of this is going to sound like word vomit, apologies.

• What is the general consensus on Fields in Bears land?

Fairly split between keep him and trade #1 or #2 overall for a haul or draft Caleb Williams or Drake Maye and trade Fields.   

On pro Justin side some see his potential and think it is on cusp of being revealed if we are patient a little longer.  Others argue he is great now, but teammates and play calling are letting him down.   

On con Justin side people argue we have had enough evidence and we know who he likely is now.  His early flaws are still his flaws.  He strengths are still his strengths - but the overall product is inadequate.  

Others declared him a savior early and don't like to be wrong or declared him a bust early and don't want to wrong.   Some, a minority, are pro or con for other superficial reasons.   

It is difficult to be on con side because Justin is extremely likeable as a person - people want him to succeed (me included).

• Do you want the team to actually build around him and draft presumably MHJ? or have you seen enough and want to move on?

Me personally I take the best college QB which I hear is the USC QB.   I think Justin is flawed as an NFL QB.  He may recover and be great, but I am in position to take top college QB and Justin is still flawed after 3 years.  I now have to decide to keep him, pay him or trade him.  I am going with a new guy and trading him.

• Do you think coaching and lack of commitment from the staff to building a system around his strengths has killed his progression?

I think coaching and org. decisions hurt his development profoundly.  I have been a vocal critic since draft day of Bears decisions regarding Fields.   I don't think it was lack of commitment to Justin however.  Just bad moves or tough or self interested decisions in moment.  

• IF the Bears were to trade him, what do you think his value is?

It probably fluctuates quite a bit.  Right now, honestly not every much.  Maybe a 3rd because he does have great potential still and is young.  If he closes season with some big games maybe a 2nd or even a 1st.  

• If they do trade him, how do you think it will received in the lockeroom?

Most won't like it.  He is well liked.  But they will get over it.  

I have heard some things on social media in regards to how the Bears will handle this and wondering if you guys have heard the same or different. A few reputable sources have basically said Poles is out on Fields, which is why they have never committed to building the system around him. 

All pure speculation. 

Its weird because I feel from everything that Ive seen, the players on the team love him. IDK if its his leadership, playstyle, talent, ect but everytime I see something where a Bears player says something related to Fields its glowing reviews. The problem is the coaching staff/GM dont seem to be nearly as bought in. Same with fans online, the majority of Bears fans that Ive read comments from seem like they really want to stick with him as well.

I wonder what the hangup is with the FO.

Anyways, just some random thoughts. 

 

The thing I struggle with Fields in the NFL is that there is this narrative that he is a horrible passer out there now. Basically like hes an athlete who cant really pass at the NFL level. Like Terrell Pryor or something. 

Watching him at OSU for those years, I never once questioned his arm talent. That dude in the biggest of games against the top teams shredded defenses with his arm and he wasnt too much of a runner like he is now. What is boggling my mind is that somehow he turned from passer who can run a bit in college to a runner who can pass a bit in the NFL. NFL Justin is like the bizzaro college Justin.

I understand the NFL is a different beast than college though and thats where Im trying to figure it out. Is this a coaching/scheme issue, did they kill him mentally in his rookie year because of how bad the surrounding talent was so he is now jittery when passing, is he just that far behind mentally or a combination of everything.

Just strange. Weird. All the above lol

[dll2000]

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The thing I struggle with Fields in the NFL is that there is this narrative that he is a horrible passer out there now. Basically like hes an athlete who cant really pass at the NFL level. Like Terrell Pryor or something. 

Watching him at OSU for those years, I never once questioned his arm talent. That dude in the biggest of games against the top teams shredded defenses with his arm and he wasnt too much of a runner like he is now. What is boggling my mind is that somehow he turned from passer who can run a bit in college to a runner who can pass a bit in the NFL. NFL Justin is like the bizzaro college Justin.

I understand the NFL is a different beast than college though and thats where Im trying to figure it out. Is this a coaching/scheme issue, did they kill him mentally in his rookie year because of how bad the surrounding talent was so he is now jittery when passing, is he just that far behind mentally or a combination of everything.

Just strange. Weird. All the above lol

He has a fantastic arm.  No complaints. 

His problem is he is holding the ball too long and passing on the play concept when it is there.

Plays are designed for ball to be out in 1, 2 or 3 seconds depending on the concept in question.  Fields is routinely holding ball past 3 seconds.

At that point it becomes a scramble drill.   It is super exciting when he breaks off a huge run or big pass off schedule - and the ability to do those things has value - but very few NFL OCs want to live that way.

It should be the exception and it has become nearly the rule.

[Sugashane]

28 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The thing I struggle with Fields in the NFL is that there is this narrative that he is a horrible passer out there now. Basically like hes an athlete who cant really pass at the NFL level. Like Terrell Pryor or something. 

Watching him at OSU for those years, I never once questioned his arm talent. That dude in the biggest of games against the top teams shredded defenses with his arm and he wasnt too much of a runner like he is now. What is boggling my mind is that somehow he turned from passer who can run a bit in college to a runner who can pass a bit in the NFL. NFL Justin is like the bizzaro college Justin.

I understand the NFL is a different beast than college though and thats where Im trying to figure it out. Is this a coaching/scheme issue, did they kill him mentally in his rookie year because of how bad the surrounding talent was so he is now jittery when passing, is he just that far behind mentally or a combination of everything.

Just strange. Weird. All the above lol

His arm is fine, he flubs 2 easy passes per week but most do. His issue is the doesn't throw with anticipation very often. He too often relies on guys being 'college open' rather than throwing in NFL windows.

And when he has too much time in the locket he will occasionally make an absurdly stupid throw (like the game ending INT vs DET, they rushed 0 and he threw it right to Hutchinson lol). A fair bit of his INTs have been in hail mary attempts or off a WRs hands too. I dont care much about that because he has had plenty of easy INTs dropped (like all QBs).

All in all his arm is fine but he needs a playcaller that can consistently force him to make 2 quick reads and dump it off, or get hi n outside the pocket to change the launch point for his throws (which pressures man coverage a lot). Getsy fails at both of those. His ability to read and make snap decisions is the issue, not arm talent.

Edit - and protecting the damn ball when he runs. He needs to work on that a LOT

Edited December 27, 2023 by Sugashane

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

it’s going to define his tenure here.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but not this. Its just not, you know how I know? Because the same thing was said last year when we had the #1 pick, and look where we are at now, having the same conversation.

if he keeps Fields and trades #1 again, and then Fields just sputters again in 2024, its not going to take Poles, because he can turn around again in 2025 and get a new QB (prospect or vet) and put them into an even better situation than Fields is in right now.

If he makes the move away from Fields, I cant see anyone calling it a catastrophic move due to what Fields hasnt shown for his entire career to this point. And if for some reason that prospect isnt coming along like they should, the rest of the roster should be in a good enough spot, and the cap in a good enough spot, you could grab a vet to steer the ship (a Jets situation)

Claiming that one single move "defines a tenure" of a GM is such a myopic view, and nearly always wrong. No one gets fired or lauded for one single decision

[G08]

39 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The thing I struggle with Fields in the NFL is that there is this narrative that he is a horrible passer out there now. Basically like hes an athlete who cant really pass at the NFL level. Like Terrell Pryor or something. 

Watching him at OSU for those years, I never once questioned his arm talent. That dude in the biggest of games against the top teams shredded defenses with his arm and he wasnt too much of a runner like he is now. What is boggling my mind is that somehow he turned from passer who can run a bit in college to a runner who can pass a bit in the NFL. NFL Justin is like the bizzaro college Justin.

I understand the NFL is a different beast than college though and thats where Im trying to figure it out. Is this a coaching/scheme issue, did they kill him mentally in his rookie year because of how bad the surrounding talent was so he is now jittery when passing, is he just that far behind mentally or a combination of everything.

Just strange. Weird. All the above lol

It's insane, isn't it?

I think Luke Getsy has overwhelmed him. When Justin drops back, he isn't reacting. He is thinking through his drop and that, IMO, is causing him to not only be a tick-late on some of his throws, it's causing him to turn down chances to hit open receivers. It's incredibly frustrating to watch at times.

[G08]

Just now, StLunatic88 said:

I agree with most of what you are saying, but not this. Its just not, you know how I know? Because the same thing was said last year when we had the #1 pick, and look where we are at now, having the same conversation.

One has to wonder why we aren't running the scheme/plays that helped some pundits to consider Justin Fields as an MVP candidate this season. Clearly there is a model that works for him, and he's a much different player/passer when he's playing with confidence.

Unless there was a direct mandate from Warren/Poles, Getsy needs to be launched into the sun. I'd even argue Flus as well if he gave the directive (which I doubt).

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

I literally can look up the quotes in the thread when the Bears acquired Moore. @Madmike90 talked about how Kmet is coming on, Moore is a stud, and Mooney is a good piece. Now? THEY NEED MORE! MOONEY SUCKS! That's called moving the goal posts which is always fun at parties

Well, Mooney hasnt returned to what he was even in early 2022 after the injury. And definitely not to the great #2 that he was with Robinson. Pretty sure thats what we were projecting Fields to have at his disposal, not this shell of himself that is barely better than a Day 3 Rookie and a 2nd year Bust.

WHOEVER the QB for 2024 is, will need much more than what we are trotting out there right now

[StLunatic88]

1 minute ago, G08 said:

One has to wonder why we aren't running the scheme/plays that helped some pundits to consider Justin Fields as an MVP candidate this season. Clearly there is a model that works for him, and he's a much different player/passer when he's playing with confidence.

Unless there was a direct mandate from Warren/Poles, Getsy needs to be launched into the sun. I'd even argue Flus as well if he gave the directive (which I doubt).

I would say that most of those Pundits were emanating from Chicago, and it was just a hype train that ran off the rails.

Regardless of that, yes there is a model that works for Fields, its just that it keeps your offense limited. I can see why they tried to expound on those core tenants, but the real issue (the one that should absolutely get Getsy fired) is that when it became extremely obvious that Fields couldnt do those things outside of his box, that they kept trying to jam that square peg into the round hole, over and over and over and over to worse and worse results every time. (honestly, I bet JF looks GREAT in practice with what they are trying to do, because he has it all scripted out for him, but in the games its totally different)

And on top of that, they battered the mantra of "dont turn the ball over" in to Justin so much that he is now scared to do almost anything if it isnt to Moore and Kmet. Its one thing to limit those things, but now even in crunch time when we need to make something happen he still holds the ball forever, not trusting most of his guys to make even simple plays.

IF we still go with Fields for 2024, its going to take a hell of an effort to just get him back to 2022 mentality, much less have him improve upon that. Which is why whoever we pick as the OC for next year will be EXTREMELY telling. If we go get a Frank Reich type, Im assuming that we are moving on from JF (likely for Drake Maye), if we go get a Greg Roman then we are admitting there is a cap on Fields and just make the offense as good as it can be in todays NFL with a running QB, but if we go for Bieniemy then we do believe there is something that can quickly be salvaged in JF as a "Franchise QB". Will be very interesting.

[Madmike90]

10 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Well, Mooney hasnt returned to what he was even in early 2022 after the injury. And definitely not to the great #2 that he was with Robinson. Pretty sure thats what we were projecting Fields to have at his disposal, not this shell of himself that is barely better than a Day 3 Rookie and a 2nd year Bust.

WHOEVER the QB for 2024 is, will need much more than what we are trotting out there right now

Yeah common sense let's you see this Mooney is not the Mooney of old but hey maybe Tarik Cohen will come back some time too 😏😂

[Madmike90]

 

[JibjeResearch]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

The thing I struggle with Fields in the NFL is that there is this narrative that he is a horrible passer out there now. Basically like hes an athlete who cant really pass at the NFL level. Like Terrell Pryor or something. 

Watching him at OSU for those years, I never once questioned his arm talent. That dude in the biggest of games against the top teams shredded defenses with his arm and he wasnt too much of a runner like he is now. What is boggling my mind is that somehow he turned from passer who can run a bit in college to a runner who can pass a bit in the NFL. NFL Justin is like the bizzaro college Justin.

I understand the NFL is a different beast than college though and thats where Im trying to figure it out. Is this a coaching/scheme issue, did they kill him mentally in his rookie year because of how bad the surrounding talent was so he is now jittery when passing, is he just that far behind mentally or a combination of everything.

Just strange. Weird. All the above lol

That is exactly how I feel.  It's the reason why Poles needs to remove the coaches and build around JF1.  On top of that, the coaches are second rated.  It's a bad idea to have a second rated coaching chasing the Super Bowl.

JF1 has shown enough....  Jim Harbaugh knows what to do with him... because he kicked hisass in college lolz ehehe😁😂

[JibjeResearch]

48 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I agree with most of what you are saying, but not this. Its just not, you know how I know? Because the same thing was said last year when we had the #1 pick, and look where we are at now, having the same conversation.

if he keeps Fields and trades #1 again, and then Fields just sputters again in 2024, its not going to take Poles, because he can turn around again in 2025 and get a new QB (prospect or vet) and put them into an even better situation than Fields is in right now.

If he makes the move away from Fields, I cant see anyone calling it a catastrophic move due to what Fields hasnt shown for his entire career to this point. And if for some reason that prospect isnt coming along like they should, the rest of the roster should be in a good enough spot, and the cap in a good enough spot, you could grab a vet to steer the ship (a Jets situation)

Claiming that one single move "defines a tenure" of a GM is such a myopic view, and nearly always wrong. No one gets fired or lauded for one single decision

If Poles gets a boat load from the 1stOverall again and builds the team better > having a newQB with an average team.

If the team is better, the QB will play better.  It helps if the coaches don't mess things up.

[JibjeResearch]

We were up 10+ points on 3 games and we lost all 3 in the 4th quarter!  That is coaching issues! 

I predicted a 10-7 season ... I was so close!  The injuries early in the season and the inconsistency by the coaching staffs messed up my prediction .... I'm fukken pissssssssssssssssssssed lolz ehehehehehehe😁😂

JF1 has issues and needs to improve in some areas...  I get it.  The fastest way to improve the team is to trade the 1stOverall just like last year!  JF1 will play better with a better team.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by JibjeResearch