LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I think what you do off the field has a tremendous effect on how you perform on it. What does a QB do when they are missing open receivers? They put in thousands of hours of work to train their mind and body so it doesn't abandon them on game day. Is that what Deshaun is doing? I have no idea, but I know there's no way for the Browns to hold him accountable if he can't/won't get it together. So far it looks like he wasn't this off-season. To my knowledge his work ethic has never been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 https://www.nfeloapp.com/nfl-power-ratings/nfl-team-tendencies/ According to this, 38% from shotgun on 1st down. So you guys are onto something, I'm hopeful changing that mix can fix Deshaun missing wide open WRs but I'm not confident at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Just now, Rod Johnson said: https://www.nfeloapp.com/nfl-power-ratings/nfl-team-tendencies/ According to this, 38% from shotgun on 1st down. So you guys are onto something, I'm hopeful changing that mix can fix Deshaun missing wide open WRs but I'm not confident at all. Scheme has nothing to do with inaccuracy though. He’s missing throws, not just missing open receivers. And honestly, Stefanski’s scheme is getting dudes wide open. If a QB can’t figure out how to make that work… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: For a “pretty good” QB? Yeah. we haven’t had one of those consistently in pushing 40 years. Let's not go down that road. Trading 3 1sts and change and guaranteeing him 1/4 of a billion dollars is nothing short of asinine if you get Call of Duty weekend Kyler Murray production 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Let's not go down that road. Trading 3 1sts and change and guaranteeing him 1/4 of a billion dollars is nothing short of asinine if you get Call of Duty weekend Kyler Murray production Well I didn’t say I wanted Kyler Murray production lol. “pretty good” to me is Eli Manning. Not really a dude who’s gonna throw a team on his back year in, year out and win you a bunch of games on his own but is also capable of getting hot and winning games, making plays, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Well I didn’t say I wanted Kyler Murray production lol. “pretty good” to me is Eli Manning. Not really a dude who’s gonna throw a team on his back year in, year out and win you a bunch of games on his own but is also capable of getting hot and winning games, making plays, etc. I mean, being content paying either 1/4 of a billion and mortgaging the future is absolutely crazy. And right now it's irrelevant, because Watson isn't anywhere close to either on the production scale. We traded and paid for Jalen Hurts level production, not this. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I mean, being content paying either 1/4 of a billion and mortgaging the future is absolutely crazy. And right now it's irrelevant, because Watson isn't anywhere close to either on the production scale. We traded and paid for Jalen Hurts level production, not this. That's my point. The picks have to be viewed in context. We wouldn’t have had 3 more 1sts to build this roster, we’d have had to use at least one of those on a QB, if not more. Unless we were gonna role with some journeyman for a year or whatever until Jimmy cleaned house because middling QBs don’t win consistently. we could have kept Baker, but I know how you felt about him. I guess we could have traded them for a rookie, but that’s an even bigger gamble tbh, albeit a cheaper one. Nothing is bulletproof, but trading assets for an established, multiple time pro bowler just entering their prime is typically best case scenario. As far as the cash? That’s the cost of one of those QBs. If he returns to form it’s a great trade. If he doesn’t what he does end up as will determine the value. My biggest point of contention is that I don’t think week 2 of 2023 is the point where we know what he becomes with certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Scheme has nothing to do with inaccuracy though. He’s missing throws, not just missing open receivers. And honestly, Stefanski’s scheme is getting dudes wide open. If a QB can’t figure out how to make that work… If we continue to see what we've seen Deshaun's first 8 games the rest of the season, I seriously hope that Haslem considers keeping the staff intact and trying to compete with a different QB and 75% of the available cap that everybody else has. The best they could do is not commit to a sunk cost fallacy. And I don't believe Stefanski is a great coach, I just think he can coordinate a respectable offense with an average QB. Edited September 21, 2023 by Rod Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: If we continue to see what we've seen Deshaun's first 8 games the rest of the season, I seriously hope that Haslem considers keeping the staff intact and trying to compete with a different QB and 75% of the available cap that everybody else has. The best the could do is not commit to a sunk cost fallacy. I mean, I suppose, idk. I’m not ready to have that discussion yet lol. 4 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: And I don't believe Stefanski is a great coach, I just think he can coordinate a respectable offense with an average QB. I think he’s levelheaded, sharp and can scheme players open as a playcaller. I’m not saying he’s great, but I think he’s capable and far from the main reason we’ve lost games over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The picks have to be viewed in context. We wouldn’t have had 3 more 1sts to build this roster, we’d have had to use at least one of those on a QB, if not more. Unless we were gonna role with some journeyman for a year or whatever until Jimmy cleaned house because middling QBs don’t win consistently. we could have kept Baker, but I know how you felt about him. I guess we could have traded them for a rookie, but that’s an even bigger gamble tbh, albeit a cheaper one. Nothing is bulletproof, but trading assets for an established, multiple time pro bowler just entering their prime is typically best case scenario. As far as the cash? That’s the cost of one of those QBs. If he returns to form it’s a great trade. If he doesn’t what he does end up as will determine the value. My biggest point of contention is that I don’t think week 2 of 2023 is the point where we know what he becomes with certainty. There's nothing typical about being able to get an elite QB in their prime from a team for any cost. Deshaun not being close to as good as he was has always been well within the range of outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The picks have to be viewed in context. We wouldn’t have had 3 more 1sts to build this roster, we’d have had to use at least one of those on a QB, if not more. Unless we were gonna role with some journeyman for a year or whatever until Jimmy cleaned house because middling QBs don’t win consistently. we could have kept Baker, but I know how you felt about him. I guess we could have traded them for a rookie, but that’s an even bigger gamble tbh, albeit a cheaper one. Nothing is bulletproof, but trading assets for an established, multiple time pro bowler just entering their prime is typically best case scenario. As far as the cash? That’s the cost of one of those QBs. If he returns to form it’s a great trade. If he doesn’t what he does end up as will determine the value. My biggest point of contention is that I don’t think week 2 of 2023 is the point where we know what he becomes with certainty. I think IF he returns to form it’s a fine trade. You get an elite quarterback on elite money and he has a major injury history and major off the field history, making each of those a calculated gamble as well. A rookie is risky but you can get out of the contract. Baker had a 4+ year body of work and we got confirmation on him last year in Carolina. We have no out for 4 years financially, and this is daunting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: There's nothing typical about being able to get an elite QB in their prime from a team for any cost. this is true, these guys don’t become available for any price. 4 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: Deshaun not being close to as good as he was has always been well within the range of outcomes. I suppose. Being at the bottom of the league by a wide margin accuracy wise is on the unlikely end of things long term though. Unless he forgot how to throw a football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/deshaun-watson-21753/ Even the fine print: Quote Contract Notes: $230M guaranteed (signing bonus + 2022 salary + 2023 salary + 2024 salary + 2025 salary + 2026 salary) $44.965M Signing Bonus Language exists that will not forfeit signing bonus or void future guarantees upon suspension 2022 salary reduced from $1.035M per the 6-game suspension So, he can basically go to prison and get guaranteed money. In 2027, we can get out of it, and not a second before that. I'd say that if for some reason he continues to perform this badly, we should just pony up a ton of cash up front/convert it into a signing bonus, pay him, then cut him/trade him and walk away and try to salvage things from a cap standpoint before 2027. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean, I suppose, idk. I’m not ready to have that discussion yet lol. I think he’s levelheaded, sharp and can scheme players open as a playcaller. I’m not saying he’s great, but I think he’s capable and far from the main reason we’ve lost games over the last few years. Yeah I think his most egregious offense thus far is keeping Joe Woods around way too long, questionable decisions in close games that didn't work out, and being a very stale personality. I think being straddled to Baker and Deshaun has been less than ideal for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Assuming Watson continues to play at less than capable levels (not even this bad, just not great): *Stefanski is fired, has to be done, fair or not. *You HAVE TO bring in a spread offense guy, and it's the "perfect time" to do it. Chubb is done through 2024, we all know that. It absolutely SUCKS, but you can then be afforded the opportunity to build your offense around Watson. I mean, would anyone be surprised to see us grab someone like Ben Johnson, Detroit's OC who has helped revamp things there with Goff and company? *You go all in on a tailer made system to Watson and hope for the best for at least 2 years. *After 2024/2025, you consider overpaying Watson a bonus to just leave and get a jumpstart on an ugly 2025/2026 as opposed to an even uglier 2027/2028 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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