Deshaun Watson

[Rod Johnson]

14 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/deshaun-watson-21753/

Even the fine print:

So, he can basically go to prison and get guaranteed money. In 2027, we can get out of it, and not a second before that. I'd say that if for some reason he continues to perform this badly, we should just pony up a ton of cash up front/convert it into a signing bonus, pay him, then cut him/trade him and walk away and try to salvage things from a cap standpoint before 2027.

It's like having Russell Westbrook.

Maybe in 2025 or 2026 Lamar Jackson is so injury riddled the Ravens decide to tank, and then we can send multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks to Sashi Brown to take Watson's contract off our hands, and DTR ends up being Tom Brady.

nvm I forgot Lamar's contract doesn't have an out until 2027 either, no way they can handle both those contracts. My spot on the Bill Simmons pod just got cancelled.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Rod Johnson

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I think IF he returns to form it’s a fine trade. You get an elite quarterback on elite money and he has a major injury history and major off the field history, making each of those a calculated gamble as well.

A rookie is risky but you can get out of the contract.

Baker had a 4+ year body of work and we got confirmation on him last year in Carolina.

We have no out for 4 years financially, and this is daunting to say the least.

Yeah the aav isn’t even bad, it’s just the complete lack of an out that’s concerning.  To say the least lol 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/deshaun-watson-21753/

Even the fine print:

So, he can basically go to prison and get guaranteed money. In 2027, we can get out of it, and not a second before that. I'd say that if for some reason he continues to perform this badly, we should just pony up a ton of cash up front/convert it into a signing bonus, pay him, then cut him/trade him and walk away and try to salvage things from a cap standpoint before 2027.

I think that language is only applicable to future potential lawsuits from the same time period, not new offenses.  Should be a fairly moot point as of now.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

12 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah I think his most egregious offense thus far is keeping Joe Woods around way too long, questionable decisions in close games that didn't work out, and being a very stale personality.

I think being straddled to Baker and Deshaun has been less than ideal for him.

I think the stale personality is perhaps an issue for fans and the media who seem to love big personalities and quotable moments.

I think the players probably enjoy a guy who’s not saying or doing wild sht all of the time, is steady, intelligent, precise in his comments, etc.  That’s the kind of person I’d prefer to work with day after day anyway.

[BetterCallSaul]

Watson has been dreadful. In all fairness to him, rust was to be expected until now. He is allowed to have a bad game, but he needs to produce over the next 2-3 games at a high level.

In other fairness to Watson, we haven't designed a scheme that he seems comfortable in. For that money, you shouldn't be scheme-dependant...but the reality is that he might be. We need to go more wide open spread looks, or get back to our bootleg passing game for easy zone flood concepts that even a doofus could thrive running.

 

We seem to be stuck in a half-measure, where we don't wanna lose our outside zone under-center run game, but we also want to let Watson cook with spread looks. I'm not sure Stefanski is comfortable moving into a wide open spread, but it does look like our best bet as far as who we have under center. We are Watson's hostages. We might as well play into what he wants, as we don't really have a choice otherwise. 

[BetterCallSaul]

Stefanski is fine. I like him a lot as a coach and a personality. I don't think he's a great fit for Watson, but then again, I never wanted Watson to begin with. If we're stuck with Watson (and we most certainly are), we are probably gonna lose Stefanski. Is it the right move? No, but I think it's going to be the harsh reality.

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think the stale personality is perhaps an issue for fans and the media who seem to love big personalities and quotable moments.

I think the players probably enjoy a guy who’s not saying or doing wild sht all of the time, is steady, intelligent, precise in his comments, etc.  That’s the kind of person I’d prefer to work with day after day anyway.

I think that KS is an ideal HC to be honest. He is calm, collected, and professional. He's good at delegating, and in some cases, too good (big strength and weakness). He trusts his other coaches, whether that's Bill Callahan (YES PLEASE), Stump (RB look great), Schwartz (YES), or Joe Woods or Mike Pfeifer at ST, complete dumpster fires.

1 hour ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Watson has been dreadful. In all fairness to him, rust was to be expected until now. He is allowed to have a bad game, but he needs to produce over the next 2-3 games at a high level.

In other fairness to Watson, we haven't designed a scheme that he seems comfortable in. For that money, you shouldn't be scheme-dependant...but the reality is that he might be. We need to go more wide open spread looks, or get back to our bootleg passing game for easy zone flood concepts that even a doofus could thrive running.

 

We seem to be stuck in a half-measure, where we don't wanna lose our outside zone under-center run game, but we also want to let Watson cook with spread looks. I'm not sure Stefanski is comfortable moving into a wide open spread, but it does look like our best bet as far as who we have under center. We are Watson's hostages. We might as well play into what he wants, as we don't really have a choice otherwise. 

This was my biggest concern with Watson and I actually said as much:

KS is a ZBS/Gap scheme heavy personnel, heavy motion, heavy under center guy.

Watson is a wide open spread option, RPO, 3+WR personnel guy.

It was a TERRIBLE match at the time and terrible fit for how we built this team. And even look at Jed Wills, who I loathe...he was billed to be a good run blocker and "meh" pass blocker, which he basically has been so far. He's not Laremy Tunsil out there. Pocic and Harris are both ideal run blocking C and struggle in pass pro, and it's showed so far with holding penalties. Literally the same with Wyatt Teller.

So yeah, on paper this team is built one way and we've done the exact opposite.

So yeah, KS unfortunately needs to go, and we need to bring in some type of a huge spread shotgun style QB with some sort of old school motion to trips, heavy RPO/sprintout, heavy dropback passing concepts, etc. as opposed to this type of offense.

And it's going to be a tough and frustrating process.

Edited September 21, 2023 by MWil23

[Rod Johnson]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think the stale personality is perhaps an issue for fans and the media who seem to love big personalities and quotable moments.

I think the players probably enjoy a guy who’s not saying or doing wild sht all of the time, is steady, intelligent, precise in his comments, etc.  That’s the kind of person I’d prefer to work with day after day anyway.

Yeah the personality is speculative, I think Schwartz personality has been a welcomed change to the team, at least on that side of the ball.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah the personality is speculative, I think Schwartz personality has been a welcomed change to the team, at least on that side of the ball.

Absolutely, but it didn’t work well for him when he was sitting in the big seat.

[MWil23]

8 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah the personality is speculative, I think Schwartz personality has been a welcomed change to the team, at least on that side of the ball.

IMO that's something that is great specifically for DEFENSIVE players who rely so heavily on tempo and violence. And I think it gets stale from a HC, and I think that in this case, it's a perfect match because KS and him are a great balance for one another.

[Rod Johnson]

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I think that KS is an ideal HC to be honest. He is calm, collected, and professional. He's good at delegating, and in some cases, too good (big strength and weakness). He trusts his other coaches, whether that's Bill Callahan (YES PLEASE), Stump (RB look great), Schwartz (YES), or Joe Woods or Mike Pfeifer at ST, complete dumpster fires.

This was my biggest concern with Watson and I actually said as much:

KS is a ZBS/Gap scheme heavy personnel, heavy motion, heavy under center guy.

Watson is a wide open spread option, RPO, 3+WR personnel guy.

It was a TERRIBLE match at the time and terrible fit for how we built this team. And even look at Jed Wills, who I loathe...he was billed to be a good run blocker and "meh" pass blocker, which he basically has been so far. He's not Laremy Tunsil out there. Pocic and Harris are both ideal run blocking C and struggle in pass pro, and it's showed so far with holding penalties. Literally the sam with Wyatt Teller.

So yeah, on paper this team is built one way and we've done the exact opposite.

So yeah, KS unfortunately needs to go, and we need to bring in some type of a huge spread shotgun style QB with some sort of old school motion to trips, heavy RPO/sprintout, heavy dropback passing concepts, etc. as opposed to this type of offense.

And it's going to be a tough and frustrating process.

I think your point about the offensive line is very true. I think Bitonio will hold up in any scheme, two of our starters (Pocic, Teller) are guys that have not performed well outside of Stefanksi's offense previously. Jed is an oaf. They played way below what's they have been on Monday, and every time I see us in empty my cheeks clench. I don't believe Callahan really has a track record coaching that style of offense either.

[mtmmike]

20 hours ago, #32 said:

Mr Watson has a career record of .500.  Thirteen teams passed on him in the draft for a reason.  He is a convicted felon and a history of making bad decisions in college, the pros, and life.  He cannot make quick decisions and has demonstrated his inability to read coverages and throwing his receivers open.  His stats at Houston were decent because his team was losing and opponents would have soft coverages.  Whoever made the mistake of trading for him has to be held accountable as does Stefanski for not coaching him up.  He is not elite.  The game against Pittsburgh solidifies many weaknesses such as fumble for a pick six, throwing a pick six, six sacks, .550 completion rate, carrying the ball with one hand, two face masks penalties, and numerous times he double clutched.  I just do not understand the Browns brain trust with this decision and have hated the trade since the beginning.

Nice

Furthermore 

Last game he was down by 17 midway thru the 3rd quarter then they went prevent defense.

Then everyone yells elite he has 105 rating like a said when he is down he has 1 drive that makes him look excellent. 

He still loses Mahomes passing yards when it counts leshaun I had a Mahomes like drive when we were down by 24 .

[Reginaldm9]

Hey nerds, 

Long time no see. It's pretty clear that Watson already doesn't look great. Money wise, we can't move on from Watson so he'll be the QB for the foreseeable future. It's funny, but this season is two games in, one of which we've won, and already feels pretty much over. It's 100% due to the QB position.

The Chubb injury, though personally devastating, should have been the catalyst for decisive action from team leadership to play inspired. That didn't happen and looks like it's not going to happen. 

With that said, Stefanski, whether you love him or hate him, is the cheapest variable to change and will be replaced with another young OC with a QB guru vibe (think Brian Johnson of the Eagles, Kellen Moore of the Chargers, or Ken Dorsey of the Bills) to help save the team from a horrific backslide. I kind of doubt that Berry gets the axe too because that would be admitting that the Watson trade was a colossal failure, but we'll see. 

That's the forecast. The only question now is whether we get there at 5-12 (the team's floor) or a more respectable 9-8 (the team's ceiling). 

[MWil23]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38454309/browns-start-same-page-finding-fixes-deshaun-watson-says

Quote

"I'm always going to have confidence. That's just the person I am," Watson said Thursday. "Me losing confidence, that's not something I'm going to do."

Tell me you're trying to convince yourself without telling me you're trying to convince yourself.

Quote

Watson attributed the struggles to not "being on the same page with everybody else" offensively. He said season-ending injuries to right tackle Jack Conklin (knee) in Week 1 and All-Pro running back Nick Chubb (knee) in Week 2 contributed to the miscommunications, but "we're coming along."

This is the QB/NFL equivalent of a politician vaguely saying "mistakes were made" without taking any responsibility or accountability.

TL;DR

I'm right, Watson is a loser of a human being who doesn't take personal or professional responsibility for his own mistakes. Great opportunity to stand up on the podium like a man and own the fact that you cost the entire team the game, that you were lost ALL NIGHT, that you missed throws, couldn't slide protection, didn't know where your outlets were, etc.

Ford rushed for over 100 yards and our 2 backup running backs accounted for 2 TD you worthless scrub.

[sdrawkcab321]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think the stale personality is perhaps an issue for fans and the media who seem to love big personalities and quotable moments.

I think the players probably enjoy a guy who’s not saying or doing wild sht all of the time, is steady, intelligent, precise in his comments, etc.  That’s the kind of person I’d prefer to work with day after day anyway.

You think the players enjoy a coach whose idea of a post game victory speech is reading off a stat sheet? Players like a personality. Just not an overbearing ahole.