Brad Holmes Draft Fact Check: Spoiler Alert--Most of It Is Good!

[Sllim Pickens]

He didn't hire Dan Campbell.  Chris Speilman, Ron Wood, and SFH hired him before they hired their GM.  

[Karnage84]

Can we not just give credit where it's due?

• Ownership/Upper Management: Sheila and Rod deserve the credit for creating an environment where they could rely on their football people to make those decisions. She's involved but she's not forcing decisions from the top down like we've heard about other ownership groups over the years. 
• Spielman: He arguably could have stepped into the GM role but instead has been a great intermediary between ownership and the football management group. He's been an asset in the overall culture change and hasn't let his own ego get in the way of building something special here. 
• Campbell: Stepped into a situation where the GM had not been hired yet with a mountain of work to do. He's been a huge asset in changing the team and organizational culture on the ground level. 
• Holmes: He's done a pretty solid job overall at adding talent to this roster and making shrewd moves to put us into a better position. No GM is perfect but he's been one of the better ones over the last 3 seasons. You have to give him a lot of credit for the way he's developed his relationship with Dan Campbell. Dan was already the HC when he was hired, so it's not like Brad had power/control to the extent that maybe some other teams would give their GM's. They've worked really well together in building this out and giving the coaching staff players to work with. 

This turnaround is a collective effort and I don't know if we're sitting here in the same position without all of these parts working together towards the same goal. 

[LionArkie]

16 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Can we not just give credit where it's due?

• Ownership/Upper Management: Sheila and Rod deserve the credit for creating an environment where they could rely on their football people to make those decisions. She's involved but she's not forcing decisions from the top down like we've heard about other ownership groups over the years. 
• Spielman: He arguably could have stepped into the GM role but instead has been a great intermediary between ownership and the football management group. He's been an asset in the overall culture change and hasn't let his own ego get in the way of building something special here. 
• Campbell: Stepped into a situation where the GM had not been hired yet with a mountain of work to do. He's been a huge asset in changing the team and organizational culture on the ground level. 
• Holmes: He's done a pretty solid job overall at adding talent to this roster and making shrewd moves to put us into a better position. No GM is perfect but he's been one of the better ones over the last 3 seasons. You have to give him a lot of credit for the way he's developed his relationship with Dan Campbell. Dan was already the HC when he was hired, so it's not like Brad had power/control to the extent that maybe some other teams would give their GM's. They've worked really well together in building this out and giving the coaching staff players to work with. 

This turnaround is a collective effort and I don't know if we're sitting here in the same position without all of these parts working together towards the same goal. 

Agree fully with this. The whole organization has done a complete 180.

[Just Want A Title]

18 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Can we not just give credit where it's due?

• Ownership/Upper Management: Sheila and Rod deserve the credit for creating an environment where they could rely on their football people to make those decisions. She's involved but she's not forcing decisions from the top down like we've heard about other ownership groups over the years. 
• Spielman: He arguably could have stepped into the GM role but instead has been a great intermediary between ownership and the football management group. He's been an asset in the overall culture change and hasn't let his own ego get in the way of building something special here. 
• Campbell: Stepped into a situation where the GM had not been hired yet with a mountain of work to do. He's been a huge asset in changing the team and organizational culture on the ground level. 
• Holmes: He's done a pretty solid job overall at adding talent to this roster and making shrewd moves to put us into a better position. No GM is perfect but he's been one of the better ones over the last 3 seasons. You have to give him a lot of credit for the way he's developed his relationship with Dan Campbell. Dan was already the HC when he was hired, so it's not like Brad had power/control to the extent that maybe some other teams would give their GM's. They've worked really well together in building this out and giving the coaching staff players to work with. 

This turnaround is a collective effort and I don't know if we're sitting here in the same position without all of these parts working together towards the same goal. 

I agree with you.  However, based on some of the stuff being said, you would think that are 1-3 and ready to start another re-build

[Louis Friend]

21 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Can we not just give credit where it's due?

• Ownership/Upper Management: Sheila and Rod deserve the credit for creating an environment where they could rely on their football people to make those decisions. She's involved but she's not forcing decisions from the top down like we've heard about other ownership groups over the years. 
• Spielman: He arguably could have stepped into the GM role but instead has been a great intermediary between ownership and the football management group. He's been an asset in the overall culture change and hasn't let his own ego get in the way of building something special here. 
• Campbell: Stepped into a situation where the GM had not been hired yet with a mountain of work to do. He's been a huge asset in changing the team and organizational culture on the ground level. 
• Holmes: He's done a pretty solid job overall at adding talent to this roster and making shrewd moves to put us into a better position. No GM is perfect but he's been one of the better ones over the last 3 seasons. You have to give him a lot of credit for the way he's developed his relationship with Dan Campbell. Dan was already the HC when he was hired, so it's not like Brad had power/control to the extent that maybe some other teams would give their GM's. They've worked really well together in building this out and giving the coaching staff players to work with. 

This turnaround is a collective effort and I don't know if we're sitting here in the same position without all of these parts working together towards the same goal. 

Here, here. And let’s add our cap specialist Mike Disner. The contracts and draft trade compensation go through him. 

[Karnage84]

8 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

I agree with you.  However, based on some of the stuff being said, you would think that are 1-3 and ready to start another re-build

I don't think we should take issue if some people would have been open to a few different tweaks. Christian Gonzalez is playing really well. Devon Achane has outperformed Gibbs and I was super high on Michael Wilson and he's performing really well with Josh Dobbs at QB in Arizona. 

It doesn't mean that we're throwing everything out and are dissatisfied with a 3-1 record. However, we do have a long season to go and our current fortune could always get turned on its head just as well as we could make it a straight run. We don't have a history of success so I don't know if we should have our scepticism get called out. We're moving in the right direction but the Lions did start 1-6 last year and we haven't been to a playoff game yet. We shouldn't be putting Brad Holmes into the HOF just yet but he definitely deserves the credit for putting this team on the right path. 

[LionArkie]

35 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I don't think we should take issue if some people would have been open to a few different tweaks. Christian Gonzalez is playing really well. Devon Achane has outperformed Gibbs and I was super high on Michael Wilson and he's performing really well with Josh Dobbs at QB in Arizona. 

It doesn't mean that we're throwing everything out and are dissatisfied with a 3-1 record. However, we do have a long season to go and our current fortune could always get turned on its head just as well as we could make it a straight run. We don't have a history of success so I don't know if we should have our scepticism get called out. We're moving in the right direction but the Lions did start 1-6 last year and we haven't been to a playoff game yet. We shouldn't be putting Brad Holmes into the HOF just yet but he definitely deserves the credit for putting this team on the right path. 

Well said.

[detfan782004]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

I don't think we should take issue if some people would have been open to a few different tweaks. Christian Gonzalez is playing really well. Devon Achane has outperformed Gibbs and I was super high on Michael Wilson and he's performing really well with Josh Dobbs at QB in Arizona. 

It doesn't mean that we're throwing everything out and are dissatisfied with a 3-1 record. However, we do have a long season to go and our current fortune could always get turned on its head just as well as we could make it a straight run. We don't have a history of success so I don't know if we should have our scepticism get called out. We're moving in the right direction but the Lions did start 1-6 last year and we haven't been to a playoff game yet. We shouldn't be putting Brad Holmes into the HOF just yet but he definitely deserves the credit for putting this team on the right path. 

Well said. Getting persecuted for having a different opinion on here is getting old.

 

[Just Want A Title]

Christian Gonzalez is out for the season after suffering a dislocates shoulder and torn Labrum.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-christian-gonzalez-likely-out-for-the-season

 

[detfan782004]

3 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

Christian Gonzalez is out for the season after suffering a dislocates shoulder and torn Labrum.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-christian-gonzalez-likely-out-for-the-season

 

injuries happen.  Does not change fact I would have rather had him.

[Just Want A Title]

3 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

Well said. Getting persecuted for having a different opinion on here is getting old.

 

You keep mentioning that you are persecuted but quite frankly you shouldn't act as if you are being treated unfairly.  Everyone can express an opinion but the expectation is that when some takes issue with it that a substantive argument can be provided to prove your point.  You aren't being singled out or "persecuted"-you are simply being asked to back up your statements/positions.

[detfan782004]

1 minute ago, Just Want A Title said:

You keep mentioning that you are persecuted but quite frankly you shouldn't act as if you are being treated unfairly.  Everyone can express an opinion but the expectation is that when some takes issue with it that a substantive argument can be provided to prove your point.  You aren't being singled out or "persecuted"-you are simply being asked to back up your statements/positions.

Backup my opinion that Spielman deserves credit?  It is an opinion based on the fact he hired the GM with management.  

Not every opinion needs substantiated.  

[Karnage84]

6 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

Well said. Getting persecuted for having a different opinion on here is getting old.

 

I think we can appreciate what the Lions are doing while also critiquing certain things that maybe aren't ideal or just something that we would have preferred to do differently. 

Hendon Hooker might be the biggest question mark out of the draft. Did we need to draft him where we did? Maybe not. Did we forgo players who could help us immediately? Yes - Devon Achane and Michael Wilson are guys that have had an immediate impact on their rosters that would have been team needs. 

However, not everything is about the immediate impact and Brad Holmes has had to plan some work for the future. 

Christian Gonzalez would have been a nice pick for us at #12. I don't think it would have stopped us from adding Branch in round 2. Hooker is probably not on the roster if we added CG. We might not have added Brodric Martin either. 

[Just Want A Title]

44 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I think we can appreciate what the Lions are doing while also critiquing certain things that maybe aren't ideal or just something that we would have preferred to do differently. 

Hendon Hooker might be the biggest question mark out of the draft. Did we need to draft him where we did? Maybe not. Did we forgo players who could help us immediately? Yes - Devon Achane and Michael Wilson are guys that have had an immediate impact on their rosters that would have been team needs. 

However, not everything is about the immediate impact and Brad Holmes has had to plan some work for the future. 

Christian Gonzalez would have been a nice pick for us at #12. I don't think it would have stopped us from adding Branch in round 2. Hooker is probably not on the roster if we added CG. We might not have added Brodric Martin either. 

I think that is one of the most under-appreciated aspects of our roster improvements.  The Lions are trying to build a team that is a consistent winner rather than just over one or two-year window.

[detfan782004]

1 minute ago, Just Want A Title said:

I think that is one of the most under-appreciated aspects of our roster improvements.  The Lions are trying to build a team that is a consistent winner rather than just over one or two-year window.

Every team faces a window of being title contender regardless of how good they build roster.

I would say Cincy is a good example. That window is dying quick.

A lot of that is QB driven. So as this team gets to that point of potential contention Goff is done age wise so who is next QB?

I listened to a podcast other day and I wish I could find the name of it because it talked about 3-5 year window is a dream in the NFL. Anything longer is likely due to exceptional QB talent