Week 7: Browns @ Colts. A Game Day Thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Maybe.

Are you able to place a player on IR that is medically cleared to play?

You know, to keep teams from putting healthy players on IR because they need to sign a player for a couple weeks for whatever reason.

That’s honestly a good question.  I’d imagine so, but I get your point.

5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Honestly only Watson knows how he feels. So you either trust him or you don't.

Yes and no.  You can’t know how he feels but you can know how others with a similar condition respond. Like Shefter said, for pitchers it’s a 4-6 week injury. The ortho md MKC referenced said 2-6 weeks.  I think as long as the player is falling within the expected timeline there isn’t much to raise an eyebrow at.

I also think the location of the injury is relevant.  This isn’t his non throwing shoulder like Baker dealt with, it’s his throwing shoulder and the muscle responsible for rotation. That’s like, sort of a big deal lol.
 

Im not saying he is or isn’t hurt, whatever, but from a medical perspective there’s nothing unreasonable here.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Are you able to place a player on IR that is medically cleared to play?

No, but teams can just make something up like “soreness.”

Then, yes.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said:

Why is everyone so hung up on “medically cleared”?  You guys should know it means absolutely nothing. Tua at one point was medically cleared. 

Because medical professionals say there is no risk of additional damage. Which means it is pain management and effectiveness.

It's a pretty important factor. It doesn't mean he should play but he isn't risking anything beyond what you always risk when you step out on the field.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

That’s honestly a good question.  I’d imagine so, but I get your point.

Yes and no.  You can’t know how he feels but you can know how others with a similar condition respond. Like Shefter said, for pitchers it’s a 4-6 week injury. The ortho md MKC referenced said 2-6 weeks.  I think as long as the player is falling within the expected timeline there isn’t much to raise an eyebrow at.

I also think the location of the injury is relevant.  This isn’t his non throwing shoulder like Baker dealt with, it’s his throwing shoulder and the muscle responsible for rotation. That’s like, sort of a big deal lol.
 

Im not saying he is or isn’t hurt, whatever, but from a medical perspective there’s nothing unreasonable here.

It is still a micro tear of the muscle and the tendon is fine. It isn't a threat to be injured further. Subscapularis injuries are types 0 (normal) through 5 (complete tendon tear). From what I read his would be a 0 because the tendon isn't tore at all.

I also read 50% of 50 year olds have some degree of subscapularis tears. So if you're not there yet, that's something to look forward to.

[Bonanza23]

20 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Because medical professionals say there is no risk of additional damage. Which means it is pain management and effectiveness.

It's a pretty important factor. It doesn't mean he should play but he isn't risking anything beyond what you always risk when you step out on the field.

Cool. Explain how he literally couldn’t lift his arm up Sunday. 

[Kiwibrown]

37 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Because medical professionals say there is no risk of additional damage. Which means it is pain management and effectiveness.

It's a pretty important factor. It doesn't mean he should play but he isn't risking anything beyond what you always risk when you step out on the field.

Imo the issue isn't the risk to damage. It's whether he can throw the ball with velocity. 

He was out there throwing weaker than Cody Kessler. 

 

Throwing involves multiple muscle. 

Quads, gluten, core and shoulder. The shoulder has big and small muscles and big and small joints. The AC joint is small and you never notice until it's upset.

 

With a rotator cuff injury if it is upset it probably is grilling to passing. Perhaps he needs to modify his action, get his butt into it or something 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

22 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

It is still a micro tear of the muscle and the tendon is fine. It isn't a threat to be injured further. Subscapularis injuries are types 0 (normal) through 5 (complete tendon tear). From what I read his would be a 0 because the tendon isn't tore at all.

And for a normal dude doing normal dude stuff it’s probably an irrelevant injury.  For a dude who has to throw stuff at a world class level, I’d imagine that’s more relevant.

Again, it’s a 4-6 week injury for pitchers.  Why would it be dramatically different for a QB?
 

The data is what it is.  Like, I’m not arguing a position or opinion, I’m just stating the typical recovery time for someone with this injury in a similar role.

People are free to believe whatever they want, but anyone acting as though this is entirely made up or just an excuse because he doesn’t want to play is doing absolutely nothing more than pushing their own narrative that flies in the face of what experts in the field are telling them.

22 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I also read 50% of 50 year olds have some degree of subscapularis tears. So if you're not there yet, that's something to look forward to.

I’ve got some time, but it’s something to get excited about lol.  But yeah, rotator cuff tears are pretty common and for a lot of folks can be fairly irrelevant.  Mostly because many folks aren’t doing things that would exacerbate the issue, like throwing something repetitively and with max velocity.

[Thomas5737]

20 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Cool. Explain how he literally couldn’t lift his arm up Sunday. 

Sounds like a frozen shoulder. Pretty unlikely, I had a frozen shoulder for like 8 months once.  Also could be a dislocation/separation but that would have shown up on his MRI I'm sure. My best guess would be that there was pain so he stopped when he felt pain.

It also wouldn't be a symptom to what he was diagnosed with so maybe all of the doctors have missed his actual injury, wouldn't be the first time.

[Thomas5737]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

but anyone acting as though this is entirely made up or just an excuse because he doesn’t want to play is doing absolutely nothing more than pushing their own narrative that flies in the face of what experts in the field are telling them.

I really really want to push that narrative and for it to be true. I'd be thrilled if he retired or refused to play for the Browns. It would be a nice Christmas present.

It however could be made up by him and he has no desire to play. It isn't something either of us could be certain of.

I'd say the most likely scenario is he does feel some pain. I'd also say most likely if he were to play he would be more effective than the other two options. That's his call though.

[Bonanza23]

8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Sounds like a frozen shoulder. Pretty unlikely, I had a frozen shoulder for like 8 months once.  Also could be a dislocation/separation but that would have shown up on his MRI I'm sure. My best guess would be that there was pain so he stopped when he felt pain.

It also wouldn't be a symptom to what he was diagnosed with so maybe all of the doctors have missed his actual injury, wouldn't be the first time.

Actually it’s a rotator cuff injury. Anecdotally I’ve heard people call in to sports talk that have said they had the same thing happen that Watson’s going through. 

[brownie man]

YO 

One thing about the Colts game and this thing with Irsay

Why the hell is everybody assuming we would've lost the game had we not got the call on DPJ?

The game wasn't near over and if I remember right that happened on first down. 

The Amari hold was clearly legit. They call miss me with all that. He was clearly held

But the DPJ one the media is ticking me off like that play decided the game. We were arouund the 15 with 3 plays left at least. 

I get the Browns hate, but acting like that DPJ play determined whether we won or not is just flat out incorrect. Sometimes its even hard to score right at the one as opposed to having some more space for routes to develop. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

55 minutes ago, brownie man said:

YO 

One thing about the Colts game and this thing with Irsay

Why the hell is everybody assuming we would've lost the game had we not got the call on DPJ?

The game wasn't near over and if I remember right that happened on first down. 

The Amari hold was clearly legit. They call miss me with all that. He was clearly held

But the DPJ one the media is ticking me off like that play decided the game. We were arouund the 15 with 3 plays left at least. 

I get the Browns hate, but acting like that DPJ play determined whether we won or not is just flat out incorrect. Sometimes it’s even hard to score right at the one as opposed to having some more space for routes to develop. 

I mean, it was an uncatchable ball that gave us first and goal at the 1.

If was an awful call that we benefited from.  No need for anyone to apologize for it, but let’s not pretend that’s not what it was.

[brownie man]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, it was an uncatchable ball that gave us first and goal at the 1.

If was an awful call that we benefited from.  No need for anyone to apologize for it, but let’s not pretend that’s not what it was.

But I'm saying it didn't decide the game

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

But I'm saying it didn't decide the game

How would we know if it did or not?

I suppose if you have an all time great QB you could assume we could pass it in from 15 yards out on 3 tries.

So if you would call PJ an all time great you have a point and the percentages are that it would have been the same result. Otherwise it's too hard to even make a guess other than 50/50.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 hours ago, brownie man said:

But I'm saying it didn't decide the game

Idk man.  Putting the ball on the 1 and giving us 1st and goal on a terrible call is just about as close as it gets.

If the situation we’re reversed browns fans would be irate.