State of Titans convo: Non-game specific

[twotonebluenation]

Starting to wonder if we catch another bad run down the stretch here if there is a chance Vrabel could be gone. 

[titans0021]

31 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

Today just really showcased the warts on this team and how far we are removed from who we were a couple seasons ago 

 

tough road opponent, but sitting at 3-5 and need a win off a mini bye. Season REALLY hanging in balance for an outside chance at getting hot and playing catch-up. We lay a total dud. 6 points.

 

Outside of Henry and Hopkins … there are no grown a$$ men on this team. That vet leadership is lacking. We miss dudes like Kenny Vaccaro, Malcolm butler, and Saffold. Guys who maybe weren’t the BEST at their position/unit but just real PROS. This used to be a roster of dawgs and now it’s beyond soft. Simmons is as much bark as he is bite, if not more.

Im thinking any message from Vrabel is starting to fall flat, probably already has. Think Hopkins questioned effort today … when has anyone in the Vrabel era questioned effort? But a honest future HOFer like Hopkins knows lack of effort when he sees it , and even us fans can tell we don’t play with heart anymore

this roster needs to be totally hauled over. 100%. Need some dudes with mental strength. But it’s also a symptom of a head coach who no longer has his team playing the way they used to week in and week out, regardless of who was on the field  

It’s truly just a soft, bad team with very little leadership that doesn’t appear to be well coached.

Robinson started sinking the ship after the AFC Championship game. A hole here when you let Conklin walk and don’t replace him. Another couple holes when you let CD, Jonnu and Adoree go and try to replace them with Julio and Farley. A shotgun shot with the Isaiah Wilson pick. Another when Art leaves and you hire Downing (though I’m sure that one is on Vrabel). A full on cannon blast with the AJ trade.

But Vrabel has done nothing to salvage it. The players don’t match his talk. Don’t match his desired identity. They constantly lose in the trenches on both sides. He desperately wants to play close games but we’ve become terrible at winning close games.

There’s almost nothing there. Levis has flashed, and maybe that’s enough. But he’s about to get absolutely brutalized for the next eight weeks. The only other players that can generate even the smallest bit of excitement are a backup RB with one ACL, a left guard that we spent the 11th pick in the draft on, a fine, young CB in McCreary, Jeff and a punter.

It’s a complete and total mess up and down the entire organization.

[-Hope-]

terry makes a good point which has been brought up occasionally through the dissolution of this roster but perhaps not  enough: we keep all manner of absolute scrubs around on account of their "versatility" or special teams prowess, but they're guys who add absolutely no value whatsoever if they have to get out there on offense or defense, which they invariably do because of injuries. and to top it off, our special teams units are perpetually mediocre-to-bad anyway. completely broken approach to filling out a roster.

[Kookie23]

3 hours ago, KingTitan said:

Thinking about this team and where we went wrong. 

The draft selection is the center of it all. 

We chose prospects poorly. Not so much the position but the prospect. 

Let Conklin walk so you could pay Tannehill and Henry among others. Conklin has been good but hurt. 

We drafted the right position in OT. But wrong person in Wilson. 

Then again drafted Radunz. Wrong person. Right position. 

And then we let players go. 

Nobody shed tears when Raymond was let go but obviously we didn't know how to use him. 

Let Corey Davis and Jonnu go. Never replaced them. 

I'm hoping Ran has a true plan and knows how to truly execute it by picking the right people. 

We have attacked the right positions but wrong people. 

We had it so good with them. Corey was a bust as a 1st rounder but if he would have taken WR2 money and stayed I don't think things would have been as rough passing the ball.

[VY-FTW]

The talent is bad boys. You can't miss 3 1st round picks in a row. And one of them was supposed to replace AJ FREAKING BROWN.. The sinking feeling I had that draft night.. Scaring to say the least when you look for a TOP wr for years and years from top FIVE pick Corey Davis and DGB Wright Hunter (Baby moss they said LOL) and a whole line of mid round guys I dont care about to FIND AJ IN THE 2ND of all places.. What a draft boys Big Jeff and AJ BROWN. Boom! Just to ship AJ away 3 years later after he was CLEARLY becoming a top 5 WR cause we cheap.. And we get BURKS...LUL

 

This year we could've replaced AJ in the draft. Trust I normally miss in the draft but yo it was a good class man. I saw Tank Dell and Zay coming from miles away. Jordon addy anyone?  But we draft a LT when we need a LT but play him at LG ?  and a RB with one ACL which we dont need if we just resign the guy that stepped in for the king and did a damn good job.. WE WAIT TILL THE 7th round to draft a WR.. Dhop is nice for this year but idk man and thats just one move the one move that broke this team apart and the day mike got in over his head

 

Mike should've been fired with Jrob the day after AJ clowned us. Never mind letting David long leave who was the spark of our run stopping but hey JACK GIBBY WILL BE OK right? Im sorry. Im normally the one that is like HEY WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE but nah even when we win next week (hehehe) we gonna get this kid killed this szn and rt will be back under center

They gonna have to win my faith back through the draft cause they lost it the night AJ got shipped

Im gonna try to enjoy watching the king and Dhop play cause they will be gone next szn. But damn we really did mess this up and the south is stacked with SILLY QB talent.. We gonna be at the bottom for a min if we dont build right and fast

[deeluxx3]

8 hours ago, titans0021 said:

It’s truly just a soft, bad team with very little leadership that doesn’t appear to be well coached.

Robinson started sinking the ship after the AFC Championship game. A hole here when you let Conklin walk and don’t replace him. Another couple holes when you let CD, Jonnu and Adoree go and try to replace them with Julio and Farley. A shotgun shot with the Isaiah Wilson pick. Another when Art leaves and you hire Downing (though I’m sure that one is on Vrabel). A full on cannon blast with the AJ trade.

But Vrabel has done nothing to salvage it. The players don’t match his talk. Don’t match his desired identity. They constantly lose in the trenches on both sides. He desperately wants to play close games but we’ve become terrible at winning close games.

There’s almost nothing there. Levis has flashed, and maybe that’s enough. But he’s about to get absolutely brutalized for the next eight weeks. The only other players that can generate even the smallest bit of excitement are a backup RB with one ACL, a left guard that we spent the 11th pick in the draft on, a fine, young CB in McCreary, Jeff and a punter.

It’s a complete and total mess up and down the entire organization.

The topic has been beaten to death, but our 2020-2022 drafts just continue to prove worse over time. In terms of complete body of work, Fulton has probably given us the “most” out of any of those draft picks. That’s saying a lot, and in the worst way.

got very little in terms of FA acquisitions over those years, too, with Autry being the only one of real value that comes to mind.

there just have been too many decisions that have had horrible long term impacts. None worse than trading our best player and replacing him with a guy who provides zero week in and week out. 
 

It’s tough to know the role Vrabel played in this compared to JRob. But both financially and personnel-y, JRob just objectively destroyed this team with massive mistake after massive mistake. 
 

I think all things considered, RC did a good job this offseason filling some holes. While collectively unspectacular, SMB, AAS, Brunskill/Hubbard are good guys to have on a football team and could have long term roles (mostly SMB and AAS). Top 3 draft picks seem to look the part. 
 

RC has his work cut out for him. IDK if Vrabel wants to or should be along for the ride. But we really need to make some big changes this offseason now that our FO is firmly in place and we have some money to spend 

[deeluxx3]

Another thing, and not trying to put too much weight into it, just something interesting 

obviously AJ is sour grapes toward our entire org, but he’s taken basically 2 swipes at Vrabel since becoming an Eagle. Basically said he liked playing for Sirianni more and telling Byard that things were done differently in Philly.

I feel like some post game comments from Simmons have seemed to conflict with Vrabel a bit. Could be wrong, but it kinda just goes back to the question of whether or not Vrabel is resonating in the locker room right now 

 

one thing that even the worst teams can do is play physical, play fast, and play disciplined. We do none of those things and that’s on coaching 

[KingTitan]

For some reason, I feel one morning soon, we going to wake up and see "Titans Fire Mike Vrabel."

But that wouldn't be smart and I know we won't. Especially if another team is maybe interested in trading for him. 

[deeluxx3]

21 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

For some reason, I feel one morning soon, we going to wake up and see "Titans Fire Mike Vrabel."

But that wouldn't be smart and I know we won't. Especially if another team is maybe interested in trading for him. 

I've been a massive advocate for Vrabel and not sure if moving on from him is the right/wrong decision.

But yesterday, off a mini-bye in what I suppose we can call a 'must win game', I saw a team who was completely lost in all phases of the game. I saw a team that was unprepared and  undisciplined. Everything that we used to NEVER be under Vrabel, we are now. And it's hard to see a team going BACK to the way they were under a specific head coach, because it's almost as if his voice no longer resonates in the locker room.

[KingTitan]

10 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I've been a massive advocate for Vrabel and not sure if moving on from him is the right/wrong decision.

But yesterday, off a mini-bye in what I suppose we can call a 'must win game', I saw a team who was completely lost in all phases of the game. I saw a team that was unprepared and  undisciplined. Everything that we used to NEVER be under Vrabel, we are now. And it's hard to see a team going BACK to the way they were under a specific head coach, because it's almost as if his voice no longer resonates in the locker room.

Those vets are gone and we are younger.

Sadly, young guys at times don't like being coached hard. Vets like Hopkins love him, because he gets it. Vrabel gives them rest, etc.

Vrabel came in and took a vet team to their peak. 

Players like AJ talk about "it's different here in Philly." I think mainly because their HC caters toward the young vibe more.  More animated, shows them movies and things for motivation. 

Vrabel comes at it like a father, where maybe a younger coach comes in like an uncle. 

[Daniel]

10 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

I've been a massive advocate for Vrabel and not sure if moving on from him is the right/wrong decision.

But yesterday, off a mini-bye in what I suppose we can call a 'must win game', I saw a team who was completely lost in all phases of the game. I saw a team that was unprepared and  undisciplined. Everything that we used to NEVER be under Vrabel, we are now. And it's hard to see a team going BACK to the way they were under a specific head coach, because it's almost as if his voice no longer resonates in the locker room.

I'd hesitate to let Vrabel go this season myself.  Now, I would need to know more behind the scenes, but I think we unquestionably have a bad team this year.  Everyone's been waiting for the wheels to fall off the team, and this year, they have.

I do think a lot of things are very likely Vrabel's fault in this (failing to develop talent, taking way too long to implement changes, injuries, etc.), but I'd like to give him a shot with a decent team again.  He's a player's coach, not an Xs and Os guy, and he needs a good team to succeed.

We've got a long term rebuild to do, so one more year of letting Ran put talent on the team and giving Vrabel something to do with it is not asking too much from a coach that's gotten the team further than any of the last like four.

10 hours ago, -Hope- said:

i'm not saying this is ultimately incorrect but given that this staff has given us absolutely no reason to believe that they are even baseline competent at evaluating and developing offensive linemen, i'm certainly not taking it as a given.

Yeah, it's hard to say what's going on with Skoronski.  I did not like him as a tackle prospect, thought he was just a guard, and not an elite one at that, but even so, there's no reason not to give him a shot at left tackle at this point.  He's not great as a left guard, and while I think his weaknesses are likely to be exacerbated at left tackle, no one else is killing it.

If he's a decent guard and that's it then it's a hell of a boneheaded pick at 11th overall.  But given how Radunz has been squandered, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the staff's fault too.

We need an outside hire at OL coach.  Getting rid of Keith Carter has not fixed the problem, and if anything, it's made it worse because you have someone now who does the same ****, since he was part of Carter's staff, and he takes the same approach, but he's got less experience and knowledge.

[titans0021]

My real theory is that the *******, tough love coach only works when you’re winning. It’s easy to get guys to buy in when you have a veteran locker room and it’s working. 

Look at the entire Belichick coaching tree that’s riddled with failed head coaches. They all learned under the biggest ******* in coaching and tried to copy his demeanor and methods. Except it failed because when you’re a new head coach, you’re almost always going into a young locker room without an established winning culture. Hell, even Belichick isn’t having success now that Brady and that class of veterans are no longer in the locker room.

Really, I think Vrabel was lucky to step into a team coming off of a playoff berth and not some franchise that was at the beginning or in the middle of a tank.

[-Hope-]

8 minutes ago, Daniel said:

We need an outside hire at OL coach.  Getting rid of Keith Carter has not fixed the problem, and if anything, it's made it worse because you have someone now who does the same ****, since he was part of Carter's staff, and he takes the same approach, but he's got less experience and knowledge.

the internal OL coach hire was an absolute travesty. probably the worst example of vrabel's good ol boy approach, on a staff absolutely packed with such examples.

2 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Really, I think Vrabel was lucky to step into a team coming off of a playoff berth and not some franchise that was at the beginning or in the middle of a tank.

two straight years of a team significantly worse than any of mike mularkey's teams, presided over by the coach we hired to be better than mularkey. if that isn't damning i don't know what is.

1 hour ago, deeluxx3 said:

one thing that even the worst teams can do is play physical, play fast, and play disciplined. We do none of those things and that’s on coaching 

so are we ready to say that going off on me for saying this exact thing like a week ago was mayyyyyybe a little off base? lol

[twotonebluenation]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I do think a lot of things are very likely Vrabel's fault in this (failing to develop talent, taking way too long to implement changes, injuries, etc.), but I'd like to give him a shot with a decent team again.  He's a player's coach, not an Xs and Os guy, and he needs a good team to succeed.

-----

We need an outside hire at OL coach.  Getting rid of Keith Carter has not fixed the problem, and if anything, it's made it worse because you have someone now who does the same ****, since he was part of Carter's staff, and he takes the same approach, but he's got less experience and knowledge.

I have been thinking about this recently. In the same vein Tomlin is more of a players coach than X and O guy, but Tomlin is willing to go outside and get guys that may not be his buddies who can really take care of parts of the team who need special care in coaching. Vrabel has seen success with some of his coaching hires but I believe this can get in his way a lot in the whole.

Vrabel can elevate by changing this mindset, along with obviously getting a more talented roster. My worry is that Vrabel being super stubborn will only want to stick with his guys. I really don't see that changing now.

The offensive line woes are so concerning to me on so many levels. I can really see the losses piling up do to this. Which may not be the worst thing.

I am starting to only see paths where Vrabel isn't here anymore because of his stubbornness. I will always be fond of Vrabel and what he did for us, but I feel he gets in his own way. I think it will ultimately be his demise.

Just worried about how all this possible change and no offensive line affects Levis, if he in fact shows us he can be the guy.

[KingTitan]

4 minutes ago, twotonebluenation said:

I have been thinking about this recently. In the same vein Tomlin is more of a players coach than X and O guy, but Tomlin is willing to go outside and get guys that may not be his buddies who can really take care of parts of the team who need special care in coaching. Vrabel has seen success with some of his coaching hires but I believe this can get in his way a lot in the whole.

Vrabel can elevate by changing this mindset, along with obviously getting a more talented roster. My worry is that Vrabel being super stubborn will only want to stick with his guys. I really don't see that changing now.

The offensive line woes are so concerning to me on so many levels. I can really see the losses piling up do to this. Which may not be the worst thing.

I am starting to only see paths where Vrabel isn't here anymore because of his stubbornness. I will always be fond of Vrabel and what he did for us, but I feel he gets in his own way. I think it will ultimately be his demise.

Just worried about how all this possible change and no offensive line affects Levis, if he in fact shows us he can be the guy.

One thing about Tomlin, he is loyal to a fault. I think everyone in the football world sees their OC as a weakness, but he keeps rolling him out there. 

Vrabel is going to get guys he can trust and that pretty much has equaled guys that have been in the Houston Texans pipeline. Why? It's not like Houston has been this stellar organization. 

I don't see getting rid of Vrabel as the answer, simply because I don't see a hire that is just like a must have. Maybe Ran does?