Week 7: San Francisco 49ers at Minnesota Vikings

[NFL Network]

1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Most teams will lose in that situation to be fair. I think the Seahawks are like 0-23 or something.

Yes I realize you'll lose more often than not if you find your self trailing most of the time but teams like the Chiefs, Bills & sometimes Ravens never seem to be out of a game b/c the QB's that they have allow their respective offenses to strike in a rather quick manner. Case in point if you give Mahomes, or Josh Allen that last drive last night the drive finishes in the endzone as opposed to an int.

On the flipside if that was the Niners defense attempting to hold the lead with a minute to go the opposing offense gets the go ahead TD.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

12 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

Yes I realize you'll lose more often than not if you find your self trailing most of the time but teams like the Chiefs, Bills & sometimes Ravens never seem to be out of a game b/c the QB's that they have allow their respective offenses to strike in a rather quick manner. Case in point if you give Mahomes, or Josh Allen that last drive last night the drive finishes in the endzone as opposed to an int.

On the flipside if that was the Niners defense attempting to hold the lead with a minute to go the opposing offense gets the go ahead TD.

Still most likely no even if you have a great talent at QB. Mahomes is 3-7 in those situations, and while a limited sample size, that's by far a great percentage. Montana the king himself has 3 wins I think total in that situation at least in his 49ers career. 

[Forge]

Nick really doing some good work with the post game notes this year

[Herodreamer79]

6 hours ago, NFL Network said:

Yes I do agree Mahomes & Allen do in fact throw INT's but the Niners defense would be no match for them as when they rush the passer they'd be rushing air as those 2 just move away from the pressure and they'd get outside the pocket and beat the Niners defense with big throws or big runs that move the sticks and it's the same old song & dance of not being able to get off the field.

Winning a shootout against a Mahomes or Allen with Brock Purdy is a recipe for disaster. 

you're not going to beat Mahomes with Defense. 

Eagles had a top 5 defense and had a like 1000 sacks last year. look what that got them.... they nearly ate a 40 burger and didnt get a sniff on mahomes.

You need a QB who can pace him and win it clutch in the 4th quarter. 

Purdy's good but he's not that guy. He's not someone who's good enough to overcome Shanahan's glitching in tight games... and he's not good enough to overcome a defense that's having a bad night... or an offense that has key players out.

49ers are glass cannon. 

Take out 1 key player like Trent Williams and bang up their RB and the whole offense falls to pieces. 

Kittle, Aiyuk, Mason, Mitchell, Juice, should have been more than enought o win that game,. 

but without 100% CMC 100% Deebo 100% Trent... Purdy looks like an irrelevant 7th round pick again.  

[NFL Network]

32 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said:

you're not going to beat Mahomes with Defense. 

Eagles had a top 5 defense and had a like 1000 sacks last year. look what that got them.... they nearly ate a 40 burger and didnt get a sniff on mahomes.

You need a QB who can pace him and win it clutch in the 4th quarter. 

Purdy's good but he's not that guy. He's not someone who's good enough to overcome Shanahan's glitching in tight games... and he's not good enough to overcome a defense that's having a bad night... or an offense that has key players out.

49ers are glass cannon. 

Take out 1 key player like Trent Williams and bang up their RB and the whole offense falls to pieces. 

Kittle, Aiyuk, Mason, Mitchell, Juice, should have been more than enought o win that game,. 

but without 100% CMC 100% Deebo 100% Trent... Purdy looks like an irrelevant 7th round pick again.  

Yes I agree with you 100% as you took the words right out of my mouth and excellent post btw!

And just to follow up on you're point of not being able to beat Mahomes with defense you hit that nail on the head as in order to beat Mahomes you need a Tom Brady type of QB not a Brock Purdy or a Jimmy lol! With that being said the Niners formula for winning doesn't work against certain teams like the Chiefs, Bills, Ravens or Eagles. I think they can handle Tua & the Dolphins though b/c he doesn't live to be outside the pocket as opposed to the other teams QB's do.

With that being said you hit the nail right on the head as the only way Niners will ever see a SB win is if they get one of those QB's that put up offense that can score at will like the 1994 Niners had.

[NFL Network]

4 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Still most likely no even if you have a great talent at QB. Mahomes is 3-7 in those situations, and while a limited sample size, that's by far a great percentage. Montana the king himself has 3 wins I think total in that situation at least in his 49ers career. 

Yea I was more looking at being down in a one score game with ball under 2 mins and need a GW TD drive as opposed to trailing by 8+ or so. I trust the likes of Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Hurts, Dak, Rodgers, Lawrence and even Cousins more than I trust Brock in those situations. 

Like I said earlier on the flipside I don't trust the Niners defense holding a once score lead late in the 4th quarter as opposing team will just move down the field and tie or take the lead just like it always is.

[NFL Network]

44 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said:

you're not going to beat Mahomes with Defense. 

Eagles had a top 5 defense and had a like 1000 sacks last year. look what that got them.... they nearly ate a 40 burger and didnt get a sniff on mahomes.

You need a QB who can pace him and win it clutch in the 4th quarter. 

Purdy's good but he's not that guy. He's not someone who's good enough to overcome Shanahan's glitching in tight games... and he's not good enough to overcome a defense that's having a bad night... or an offense that has key players out.

49ers are glass cannon. 

Take out 1 key player like Trent Williams and bang up their RB and the whole offense falls to pieces. 

Kittle, Aiyuk, Mason, Mitchell, Juice, should have been more than enought o win that game,. 

but without 100% CMC 100% Deebo 100% Trent... Purdy looks like an irrelevant 7th round pick again.  

Another thing I should point out is that at the beginning of the season all I heard was how much depth the Niners have on both offense & defense? Well the offense only has 2 quality WR's, 1 RB, 1 TE and a FB. Take away any of those pieces and it's big trouble b/c of the lack of depth on offense. As far as defensive depth goes the shear fact the defensive line can't get home to sack the QB is proof that they needed more pass rushers or some sort of sack by committee approach that the Ravens use to lead the league in sacks. The pass coverage is spotty at best as when a CB like Lenoire has good coverage someone else drops the coverage and pass gets completed for a first down and vice versa. The secondary is anything but an no fly zone or legion of boom lol! The linebackers I'd say are best part of the defense but they can struggle in coverage and the last 2 weeks they're missing tackles.

So with that being said where's all the depth gone?

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

1 hour ago, NFL Network said:

Another thing I should point out is that at the beginning of the season all I heard was how much depth the Niners have on both offense & defense? Well the offense only has 2 quality WR's, 1 RB, 1 TE and a FB. Take away any of those pieces and it's big trouble b/c of the lack of depth on offense. As far as defensive depth goes the shear fact the defensive line can't get home to sack the QB is proof that they needed more pass rushers or some sort of sack by committee approach that the Ravens use to lead the league in sacks. The pass coverage is spotty at best as when a CB like Lenoire has good coverage someone else drops the coverage and pass gets completed for a first down and vice versa. The secondary is anything but an no fly zone or legion of boom lol! The linebackers I'd say are best part of the defense but they can struggle in coverage and the last 2 weeks they're missing tackles.

So with that being said where's all the depth gone?

Well I am not sure we have the same depth as prior years.  Last year's team had some depth.  

 

Omenihu, Ekubaum, Aziz, Jimmy Ward, and McGlinchy are on other teams.

[SteelKing728]

Tough loss guys, but when its all said and done, the 49ers are still an elite team and the Vikings are just trying to claw their way back into contention (the losses to the Chargers and Bucs sting mightily right now).

I think if you take care of Cincy and get to the bye healthy that things will be good in San Fran this year.

Oh, and I know that was a rough ending for Purdy, but the dude is legit. Even without elite tools, he is the perfect fit for your offense, and he's incredibly sharp in how he attacks defenses. If you gave him Lance's tools, he'd probably be a top 3 QB instead of a top 10 one.

Good luck the rest of the way!

[JIllg]

So, a few notes from this game:

The game was lost through offensive mistakes, poor defensive planning, and Nick Bosa not being himself.

On offense: CMC's had a fumbling problem since he's gotten here. That's two now in the deep red zone. That one hurt when Ward had made a tremendous play to secure us points. It hurt more because we were cooking the Vikings on a per play basis on offense. The same is true for the immensely dumb sack in the late third quarter that nearly turned into a fumble. They rushed 3 and dropped eight. We had at least 5 in pass protection. McKivitz and especially Burford blew assignments badly and we had immediate pressure on a play where Purdy was preparing to take his time and maneuver around. Disgraceful blocking and it blew a drive opportunity when we already had too few of them.

On the Purdy end - he was the main force making the offense work with the run blocking being so poor. Then the first interception was just a misfire. It wasn't the first one of the season. He's been a bit turnover lucky. Those misfires are the difference between he and the best players at his position. And while he can be razor precise, these mistakes coming bad were bound to happen. The final interception was a bad decision, but a bad decision in the right direction for me. Like - your interception rate should go up in these difficult situations because you are trying to desperately press the ball into tight situations to try and make up points. Yes he could take off and run there. But I at least dig the fight to try and win the game rather than protect your own stats. There was a study done on fivethirtyeight about interception rates versus success rates in these sort of desperate drive situations and guys like Manning and Stafford both had among the highest success rates and had their interception rates press higher as they attempted to force through wins. Rodgers had his interception rate fall even further and while his late drive successes are very memorable - being Hail Marys and that painful field goal drive against us, they were significantly less numerous than other quarterbacks with his skill with a similar number of opportunities. Long story short, in those situations - things are bad and you have to try and make plays. Purdy tried something too aggressive and got burned. That's going to happen a percentage of the time there. Over more samples, he'll have his moments. He was at like 11 ypa for most of the game. And those moments will stick in the memory.

On the defensive end - we aren't getting there with four. Armstead and Hargrave saw a lot of help in this one. Bosa got cleaner looks more often against tackles than he is going to see in a while. And the cleanest win that came from our outside pass rushers was from Clelin Ferrell. The touchdown before halftime was just a very, very poor defensive playcall. I guess you are trying to prevent a field goal? Maybe? But bringing a touchdown as a very real possibility if one guy gets beat into play just can't be correct. The defense feels so much less than the sum of its parts. Greenlaw and Warner and Ward are holding up their end of the bargain. Cousins completed more against the middle of the field than you'd expect, but they were into tight windows. He had his highest CPOE of the season. Sometimes Cousins is on a heater. And on a heater, he can get it done against anyone. I think Bosa's been very sack unlucky early in the season. But we missed our DPOY candidate today.

I'm not excited for the Cincinnati game. But I think after that, we will see plenty of turnaround after the bye and return to being one of the best teams in football.

[JIllg]

Also, Drake Jackson after beating up on Dan Moore hasn't existed. And our pass rush vanished with him. I think Randy Gregory will get his against worse tackles and that side will even out. 

And I completely forgot the Moody miss, which was another game loser. Like, the 55 yarder was value added, but if you make the first one in this Vikings game (and the winner from where we ended up before the pick) and the one from the Browns game and the rest of the situations remain equal, we're talking about two Purdy comeback drives to win. Each of these value differences can lead to a loss. And that's why you don't draft these guys highly. There isn't as much separation as you think. Would be great to have a corner or pass rusher or offensive lineman right now.

[49ersfan]

11 hours ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said:

Well I am not sure we have the same depth as prior years.  Last year's team had some depth.  

 

Omenihu, Ekubaum, Aziz, Jimmy Ward, and McGlinchy are on other teams.

I think our LB depth is fine. Burks & DFF have played relatively well when given the chance. Winters & Graham played well in the preseason too

McKivitz has been up & down but McGlinchey has struggled for Denver too

We definitely miss that DL depth though. I would like us to add 1-2 more pieces either via trade or FA. For example, i wouldn't mind signing Suh

[NFL Network]

12 hours ago, Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420 said:

Well I am not sure we have the same depth as prior years.  Last year's team had some depth.  

 

Omenihu, Ekubaum, Aziz, Jimmy Ward, and McGlinchy are on other teams.

For the last 2 years all I've heard is that this team has so much depth that everybody else outside the QB position but in reality that's not the case as they only have one true pass rusher who's been non existent this year and they've lacked a an elite secondary across the board since 1994. I don't think any team in the league should really fear the Niners that much b/c all I see is a team no better than the Derek Henry led Titans in the playoffs a few years ago as the teams were seeded at the top of the AFC but sure as hell didn't fear them winning the conference and winning the SB b/c they didn't have a QB who scared anyone!

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

33 minutes ago, NFL Network said:

For the last 2 years all I've heard is that this team has so much depth that everybody else outside the QB position but in reality that's not the case as they only have one true pass rusher who's been non existent this year and they've lacked a an elite secondary across the board since 1994. I don't think any team in the league should really fear the Niners that much b/c all I see is a team no better than the Derek Henry led Titans in the playoffs a few years ago as the teams were seeded at the top of the AFC but sure as hell didn't fear them winning the conference and winning the SB b/c they didn't have a QB who scared anyone!

Man, I don't know how to respond for everyone, that sounds like a lot of conversations.  The team had depth at most spots last year, but not the secondary.  Ward being able to play all 5 positions added depth.  Not elite super depth that the other 6,756,123,895 people believe in, but it was better than Oliver and an injured Womack.  Also healthy Womack adds depth.

This team will continue to play football.  The five weeks were really good, then two bad weeks.  I m sorry about how you feel, maybe a therapist might be a good place for feelings.  

The depth at Tackle was better with McGlinchy and McKivitz over Mikivitz and Not-McGlinchy.  Struggles or not, the other guy is .a solid swing/back up Tackle. 

ETC.

 

1 hour ago, 49ersfan said:

I think our LB depth is fine. Burks & DFF have played relatively well when given the chance. Winters & Graham played well in the preseason too

McKivitz has been up & down but McGlinchey has struggled for Denver too

We definitely miss that DL depth though. I would like us to add 1-2 more pieces either via trade or FA. For example, i wouldn't mind signing Suh

Yeah, DL depth and scheming these guys into good situations would help a lot.  I like Gregory though.

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, JIllg said:

And I completely forgot the Moody miss, which was another game loser. Like, the 55 yarder was value added, but if you make the first one in this Vikings game (and the winner from where we ended up before the pick) and the one from the Browns game and the rest of the situations remain equal, we're talking about two Purdy comeback drives to win. Each of these value differences can lead to a loss. And that's why you don't draft these guys highly. There isn't as much separation as you think. Would be great to have a corner or pass rusher or offensive lineman right now.

He could kick the game-winning FG to win the SB and that pick will still be horrendous.

There is absolutely no value in drafting a kicker in the 3rd round.

What round was Justin Tucker drafted?

Robbie Gould?

David Akers?

There are too many variables at play to even fathom the thought that drafting a kicker that high would ensure success.

But this the same franchise that also drafted a punter in the 5th round...this is what we do.

Edited October 25, 2023 by 757-NINER