StLunatic88 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I wouldn't touch either Nix or Penix...I just can't get past how bad they looked at Auburn & Indiana respectively...and as you said Penix is held together by duct tape at this point... I don’t have them very high either, but why does it matter what they did 3/4 years ago? We don’t hold prospects that stay with the same school to that standard? If anything it shows how much they have improved. And in all honestly, they were both natural playmakers early in their careers, they just harnessed a lot of that into being actual QBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 22 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: I don’t have them very high either, but why does it matter what they did 3/4 years ago? We don’t hold prospects that stay with the same school to that standard? If anything it shows how much they have improved. And in all honestly, they were both natural playmakers early in their careers, they just harnessed a lot of that into being actual QBs I think for me a lot has to do with scheme & the talent around them...these guys went from admittedly poor situations and then found themselves in outstanding ones...Oregon year after year have an excellent offence scheme and put up points...everywhere DeBoer has been as a HC they have put up a ton of points...I just don't feel these two guys had as much to do with it as the scheme, playcalling, talent around them did... I guess it's the same way as I view Purdy...yes they play a part...but you take away all the support around them and what do you have? I don't see Nix or Penix being able to elevate talent around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 22 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: I think for me a lot has to do with scheme & the talent around them...these guys went from admittedly poor situations and then found themselves in outstanding ones...Oregon year after year have an excellent offence scheme and put up points...everywhere DeBoer has been as a HC they have put up a ton of points...I just don't feel these two guys had as much to do with it as the scheme, playcalling, talent around them did... I guess it's the same way as I view Purdy...yes they play a part...but you take away all the support around them and what do you have? I don't see Nix or Penix being able to elevate talent around them. Except all of that is already built into their evaluation (assuming you don’t have them as a Top of the Draft talent). Because what they accomplished in College, is way better than the guys who actually are the Top Prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Except all of that is already built into their evaluation (assuming you don’t have them as a Top of the Draft talent). Because what they accomplished in College, is way better than the guys who actually are the Top Prospects. Of course it's only a part of the evaluation...with Nix I don't see it mentally...seems soft & not much of a leader from what I have seen of him (granted ESPN)...Penix is just older & already his body is breaking down and that is before he gets hit in the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: Except all of that is already built into their evaluation (assuming you don’t have them as a Top of the Draft talent). Because what they accomplished in College, is way better than the guys who actually are the Top Prospects. Williams has by far the best career stats of that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, refundmytickets said: Williams has by far the best career stats of that group. I never said anything about stats… but if we are using them as some measurement of potential NFL success, those 3 have much more similar stats to Williams that you realize, and the CW camp wants to admit And again, if we are bringing up systems for Nix/Penix, you can’t just ignore it for Williams Edited February 11 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) Edited February 11 by Madmike90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I never said anything about stats… but if we are using them as some measurement of potential NFL success, those 3 have much more similar stats to Williams that you realize, and the CW camp wants to admit And again, if we are bringing up systems for Nix/Penix, you can’t just ignore it for Williams What have Nix and Penix "accomplished" in college that Williams has not? I'd suggest you look again at the stats. Williams is by far better than both Nix and Penix. It's not close. His career QBR is 20 points higher than both of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, refundmytickets said: What have Nix and Penix "accomplished" in college that Williams has not? Well only one of the three has won a Conference championship and played for a National Title, but I guess some cherry picked stats or an individual award is somehow a bigger “accomplishment”? (Also, while they have all played in one, only one of these guys was blown out in a Championship game) 3 hours ago, refundmytickets said: I'd suggest you look again at the stats. Williams is by far better than both Nix and Penix. It's not close. His career QBR is 20 points higher than both of those guys. When you say stuff like this, you just look foolish We can look at the last 2 seasons, because if we are looking at entire career counting numbers, as you want to try to say “it’s not close” 715/1109 (64.5%), 9544y (8.6), 67 TD, 19 INT, 16 sacks 599/888 (67.5%), 8170y (9.2), 72 TD, 10 INT, 63 sacks 658/879 (74.9%), 8101y (9.0), 76 TD, 10 INT, 10 sacks if you can look at those three stat lines and say their performances over the last two years “aren’t close”, then I guess go with that, but to me those are extremely similar Once again, I’m not saying they are close prospects, it’s a different thing. But those are close, especially when they have all played in the same number of Conference Championship Games and the one you are touting as “not even close” to the others isn’t the one with a Win (if you’d like the ultimate “accomplishment” stat, I can add their records as well, but that’s only going to hurt your case) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refundmytickets Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: Well only one of the three has won a Conference championship and played for a National Title, but I guess some cherry picked stats or an individual award is somehow a bigger “accomplishment”? I would say winning the Heisman is a bigger accomplishment than winning a conference championship. 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: When you say stuff like this, you just look foolish We can look at the last 2 seasons, because if we are looking at entire career counting numbers, as you want to try to say “it’s not close” 715/1109 (64.5%), 9544y (8.6), 67 TD, 19 INT, 16 sacks 599/888 (67.5%), 8170y (9.2), 72 TD, 10 INT, 63 sacks 658/879 (74.9%), 8101y (9.0), 76 TD, 10 INT, 10 sacks if you can look at those three stat lines and say their performances over the last two years “aren’t close”, then I guess go with that, but to me those are extremely similar There's no reason to throw out Penix's and Nix's early years. You could argue those years are more relevant because they're age-aligned. If you look at efficiency, rate stats, and per game stats across their college careers, there's no comparison: Nix 21/31.7 (66%), 252 yds/gm (7.9), 1.9 TD/gm, 0.4 INT/gm, 149.6 QBR Penix 21.8/34.4 (63%), 280 yds/gm (8.2), 2 TD/gm, 0.7 INT/gm, 146.6 QBR Williams 19.9/29.7 (67%), 272 yds/gm (9.2), 2.5 TD/gm, 0.4 INT/gm, 169.3 QBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Now our season can start hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSLCF04 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 And now the real season begins lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 An interesting video over a guy I've been back and forth on myself..... Despite the clickbaitey title, it's actually kind of a "both sides" video.... Worth a watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 6 hours ago, Epyon said: An interesting video over a guy I've been back and forth on myself..... Despite the clickbaitey title, it's actually kind of a "both sides" video.... Worth a watch. I know it’s a video that only shows a dozen or so of Waldron’s plays, but I liked the way they built off of each other with the same looks. How many times did we see the past 2 years where a specific formation or personnel grouping meant one play? Felt like a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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