DTR vs Joe Flaco

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I meant specifically regarding play selection.

Everyone wants a 50/50 split (or better) run/pass, but that’s not always possible.  If you’re behind the sticks a lot and they’re putting 8 in the box consistently you can’t just keep running it like a moron and hope it works.

My gut said we passed too much on Sunday too, but using data that applies context to those numbers paints a different picture.

Yup. It's one thing if we had Chubb, who can still have plenty of success vs. a stacked box just because he's so f'ing talented. Ford has been good this year, but he's no where near Chubb's level and isn't gonna have a ton of consistent success running against a defense with 8 dudes in the box.

Don't get me wrong, I still would have liked to have run the ball more, but I get it. Was it Stefanski's best called game? No, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. I didn't like the reverse that basically killed our chances of winning, but Stef had to get creative with his play calling with the personnel he has to work with currently. A lot of the time on Sunday that creative play calling worked... unfortunately that time it didn't.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Yup. It's one thing if we had Chubb, who can still have plenty of success vs. a stacked box just because he's so f'ing talented. Ford has been good this year, but he's no where near Chubb's level and isn't gonna have a ton of consistent success running against a defense with 8 dudes in the box.

Don't get me wrong, I still would have liked to have run the ball more, but I get it. Was it Stefanski's best called game? No, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. I didn't like the reverse that basically killed our chances of winning, but Stef had to get creative with his play calling with the personnel he has to work with currently. A lot of the time on Sunday that creative play calling worked... unfortunately that time it didn't.

My frustration after the game with the play calling was in retrospect frustration with the results.

Harrison Bryant has been good all year under center on 4th down.  I wanted more creativity but the reverse blew up in our face.

Lots of fumbles, drops, dumb penalties, etc. also didn’t help.

[Thomas5737]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t think it’s wild to take balance out of the equation when the situation doesn’t allow for balance. 
 

I mean, should we be running on 3rd and long or in the two minute consistently?

Not if you also do it for everyone ever. Which changes the whole equation. 

If we were up 20 in the 4th quarter we would be running like crazy, should that not count either since it was situational football? It all balances out over the course of a season, or close enough.

 

We've had a top 5 run blocking line and bottom 15 pass blocking line for years with the best pure running back in the league and suspect QB play with thin inconsistent receiving options. We have been pretty balanced over that time. Some would say play to your strengths and in some part we do by keeping it balanced. However, it seems we usually use it as a luxury more than anything.

Pretty sure if we had a great QB and great pass blocking and receiving options with mediocre run blocking and okay ball carriers we wouldn't be a balanced offense anymore. You would say of course we wouldn't, you play to your strengths. Then I'd say why didn't we when we were an elite running team? Then you'd say we need balance. Then I'd say we aren't balanced now and you say it's because we are great at passing and I would say we were great at running but were balanced and you would say we need to... oh, you get it.

Anyway, we know what we have as an offensive identity. We're not going to try to beat you with our run game. It may happen, especially if Chubb breaks big runs or is eating up 12 yards at a time but when the game is on the line we are passing unless it's stupid to do so. 

It makes sense that you go get a top 5 QB, at all and any cost once you accept that is who we are. It hasn't worked out, but I understand why we thought it was important compared to steady play with a better roster and leaning on our ground game. It wasn't gonna happen so why pretend.

[Navy]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I thought so too, but not really.

 

With all due respect - Those are selective to support an argument out there after Sunday's game.

There's no way I'll be sold on Sunday's game, or the others mentioned,  weren't approached based on the personnel we had on the field - leaving us behind the eight ball from the get go

They don't cover the many series we were 2nd/3rd and long after no attempts to run the ball. That pass/run ratio was consistent from the kickoff/ actually it improved in the 2nd half by a small margin. Even with the madness trying to make up the deficit starting with the asinine triple reverse when we were down by 5 and still very much in the game. We were somewhere around our own 40 with a very legitimate chance to push the ball. Then the wheels fell off. The series before, we tried our best to the QB killed with eventually was a 35 yd drop back to nearly oour own end zone on a 3rd and long in a one score game. We didn't have Fouts/Marino/Brady with Winslow/Gronk as a bail out. We had a rookie trying his best to accomplish what he was handed to do. One score down in the 3rd when this collapse started.

For all the great things Stef has brought, this has to be corrected. Identity??? Execution?????  --- How about winning

 

 

[NateDawg]

4 hours ago, mtmmike said:

No worries my friend 

How are you doing

Just made homemade Christmas cookies with the wife and kids. 

Fridge is stocked and the heat is on. 

Wife just gave me a big kiss for a job well done. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

46 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

If we were up 20 in the 4th quarter we would be running like crazy, should that not count either since it was situational football? 

uh… no? Not if you’re talking about one specific game or small sample size.  That IS relevant info.  

46 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

We've had a top 5 run blocking line and bottom 15 pass blocking line for years with the best pure running back in the league and suspect QB play with thin inconsistent receiving options. We have been pretty balanced over that time. Some would say play to your strengths and in some part we do by keeping it balanced. However, it seems we usually use it as a luxury more than anything.

Pretty sure if we had a great QB and great pass blocking and receiving options with mediocre run blocking and okay ball carriers we wouldn't be a balanced offense anymore. You would say of course we wouldn't, you play to your strengths. Then I'd say why didn't we when we were an elite running team? Then you'd say we need balance. Then I'd say we aren't balanced now and you say it's because we are great at passing and I would say we were great at running but were balanced and you would say we need to... oh, you get it.

Anyway, we know what we have as an offensive identity. We're not going to try to beat you with our run game. It may happen, especially if Chubb breaks big runs or is eating up 12 yards at a time but when the game is on the line we are passing unless it's stupid to do so. 

It makes sense that you go get a top 5 QB, at all and any cost once you accept that is who we are. It hasn't worked out, but I understand why we thought it was important compared to steady play with a better roster and leaning on our ground game. It wasn't gonna happen so why pretend.

I mean, you act as if we don’t run the ball.  We have the 6th highest run percentage in the league this season.

As far as trying to win with the run game (run first anyway) it doesn’t particularly work.  The old adage of you need to run to open the pass has some merit, but it’s essentially been flipped.  If you can’t pass the ball consistently teams are going to stack the bad and make you win down the field. 
 

Right now we don’t have our pro bowl QB, all pro RB, All pro RT, starting LT, our 3rd tackle is banged up and 3 guys have started multiple games this season.  I’m just not seeing the issue with this offense being a lack of run plays. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

16 minutes ago, Navy said:

With all due respect - Those are selective to support an argument out there after Sunday's game.

correct, that was the intent.

16 minutes ago, Navy said:

There's no way I'll be sold on Sunday's game, or the others mentioned,  weren't approached based on the personnel we had on the field - leaving us behind the eight ball from the get go

I’m not sure there’s a scheme that’s gonna give us any advantages with what we’re dealing with injury wise on that side of the field.

16 minutes ago, Navy said:

They don't cover the many series we were 2nd/3rd and long after no attempts to run the ball. That pass/run ratio was consistent from the kickoff/ actually it improved in the 2nd half by a small margin. Even with the madness trying to make up the deficit starting with the asinine triple reverse when we were down by 5 and still very much in the game. We were somewhere around our own 40 with a very legitimate chance to push the ball. Then the wheels fell off. The series before, we tried our best to the QB killed with eventually was a 35 yd drop back to nearly oour own end zone on a 3rd and long in a one score game. We didn't have Fouts/Marino/Brady with Winslow/Gronk as a bail out. We had a rookie trying his best to accomplish what he was handed to do. One score down in the 3rd when this collapse started.

For all the great things Stef has brought, this has to be corrected. Identity??? Execution?????  --- How about winning

 

 

 I feel like some fans fail to realize there are also pro coaches on the other sideline as well.   The dude there on Sunday is a proven entity with a Super Bowl win on his resume.  Stefanski isn’t gonna out coach everyone all the time. No one does.  You catch a Patriots game this season?

All in all I think he’s done a pretty solid job this season with all the impact talent that’s been out of the lineup.  We have an identity as far as I see it.  Tough, win with our defense and ST.  What am I missing?   
 

As far as execution I have never and will never put some things on coaches.   Drops, picks, fumbles, etc aren’t on coaches.  This isn’t middle school football, they’re pros expected to do their job.  I’ll look to the coaches when the schemes don’t give them a chance.  I’m not gonna throw my hands up in disgust at the HC when a TE drops a pass.

[Navy]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

correct, that was the intent.

I’m not sure there’s a scheme that’s gonna give us any advantages with what we’re dealing with injury wise on that side of the field.

 I feel like some fans fail to realize there are also pro coaches on the other sideline as well.   The dude there on Sunday is a proven entity with a Super Bowl win on his resume.  Stefanski isn’t gonna out coach everyone all the time. No one does.  You catch a Patriots game this season?

All in all I think he’s done a pretty solid job this season with all the impact talent that’s been out of the lineup.  We have an identity as far as I see it.  Tough, win with our defense and ST.  What am I missing?   
 

As far as execution I have never and will never put some things on coaches.   Drops, picks, fumbles, etc aren’t on coaches.  This isn’t middle school football, they’re pros expected to do their job.  I’ll look to the coaches when the schemes don’t give them a chance.  I’m not gonna throw my hands up in disgust at the HC when a TE drops a pass.

It's all good brother. 

Not holding Stef responsible for players not doing their jobs. Far from it. If their not producing, adjust and go to your best option that will

Can the man make mistakes and get his azz handed to him by another coach (BB/Payton reference)? Sure...  But there also approaches to limit the damage in future calls/games. 

Absolutely on board with you on with Defense and special teams pulling us to greatness. Let's see it through the offensive approach 

I'll agree to disagree on Stef's approach. Overall, best coach we've had in a long time. Untouchable, where he has little accountability for the results he initiated - Nope. We all have an opinion, from my end he has the tools to be great, but seeing signs he won't adjust to the conditions set before him.

Watched this forum for years before I joined. For the most part enjoyed it, even quite amusing at times - which is great

Not into trying out hammer fellow posters on here through dialect. Just supporting my case 

Have a great day

 

 

 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, you act as if we don’t run the ball.  We have the 6th highest run percentage in the league this season.

As far as trying to win with the run game (run first anyway) it doesn’t particularly work.  The old adage of you need to run to open the pass has some merit, but it’s essentially been flipped.  If you can’t pass the ball consistently teams are going to stack the bad and make you win down the field. 
 

Right now we don’t have our pro bowl QB, all pro RB, All pro RT, starting LT, our 3rd tackle is banged up and 3 guys have started multiple games this season.  I’m just not seeing the issue with this offense being a lack of run plays. 

yeah, we run the ball. We were built to run the ball, it's what our line does best. It's when games get close that we get pass happy but that is who we are.

I would prefer we rely more on the run game when it is working (it was working against the Broncos) but I'm not the coach so we'll just go with what he prefers and that's relying on his QB (whoever it is) with the game on the line.

On 46 pass plays we netted 162 yards. 3 point something per. On 16 RB carries we netted 87 yards. 5 point something per. One worked better than the other. Not shocking. We've averaged over 40 attempts the last few games. Whether we "had" to or not. It's who we are.

[DaWg_LB.]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:58 AM, Navy said:

• None of this matters if we don't attempt to play to the team's and players strengths vs burned in philosophies.

Analytics aren't even being followed. 32nd ranked defense vs the run and we habitually toss it up

Why did we sign our guards to mega contracts if we don't take advantage of their talent

The players went to the coach after Seattle game expressing their displeasure with the play calling that defintely lost the game. Response - We can do better - Strong desire to win . BS

No adjustments to best overcome the vast amount of injuries we have. A conservative approach to give us our best chance isn't the wrong way to approach this vs triple reverses and 12-20 step drops

We've seen with Jackson (process has to play out), Farmer (The movie continues). 

Preaching next man up and then not adjusting for the talent brought with that is inexcusable. It's called leading/coaching

Denver/Seattle and the first Squealers games (all very winnable) were not QB issues. They were terrible game planning disguised by lack of execution 

 

These were my thoughts exactly......why were not playing to the Strength of the team we have left? Now DTR started to look like he was about to start cooking a bit, and operating pretty solid inside the offense.....But at one point we were averaging over 6.5 yards a carry, going with the old school student body right or up the gut....now why he decided to..in the 4th quater call a triple reverse, with your 3rd string QB, to your 3rd string RB (who's hadn't had ANY touches at that point in the game) I dont get that one. 

I understand Stefanski is a new'er school coach and like to incorporate analytics....but Football sometimes you just gotta Feel it..its not a math equation, its a Bar Fight...

[NateDawg]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39007471/browns-name-joe-flacco-qb2-opening-door-start-vs-rams
 

Name him the starter and be done with it already. He may be awful, but we know what we have seen so far.

[mtmmike]

4 hours ago, NateDawg said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39007471/browns-name-joe-flacco-qb2-opening-door-start-vs-rams
 

Name him the starter and be done with it already. He may be awful, but we know what we have seen so far.

Not sure that either survives AAron

Donald.

We are going to have huge problems running the ball against LA.

[mtmmike]

4 hours ago, NateDawg said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39007471/browns-name-joe-flacco-qb2-opening-door-start-vs-rams
 

Name him the starter and be done with it already. He may be awful, but we know what we have seen so far.

Not sure that either survives AAron

Donald.

We are going to have huge problems running the ball against LA.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Well said Mike.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Well said Mike.